Public Shout Box

[CeeDub]

Sometimes after a post you may decide to edit. If you shout something and change your mind, just ref the time and a simple 'delete plz' will alert any mod present.

And sometimes a mod may delete a shout. Because of the pace of the shoutbox, the mod may alert you before or advise you after, either in the SB or by PM.

The Terms of Service can help guide you, but it's not a contract. And neither I, the other Mods nor any other member are machines, we're human beings, imperfectly created by random occurances of nature.

[Bobblehead]

Top 5 or so forums:

candlepowerforums.com (my home away from home)
gripes.com
rushlimbaugh.com
top5.com
ilovedanfalcon.com
alt.music.alternative (really!) ((technically a newsgroup, but what's the diff?))  (((my first love)))

Fyi, I am a jclist outcast.  I'm not proud nor ashamed, I am what I am. I joined this lovely forum not long after it came to be, perhaps to avenge my buddy Dan. In those days, it was one or the other; it was unPC to show allegiance to both forums.  Is that still the case?  Remember Melissa, one of the original admins here?  Thanks to her, I threw away my computer.

candlepowerforums.com  I know a few other folks addicted to that site. Don't know their screen names since I don't venture there.

[Mr_Grieves]

Top 5 or so forums:

candlepowerforums.com (my home away from home)
gripes.com
rushlimbaugh.com
top5.com
ilovedanfalcon.com
alt.music.alternative (really!) ((technically a newsgroup, but what's the diff?))  (((my first love)))

Fyi, I am a jclist outcast.  I'm not proud nor ashamed, I am what I am. I joined this lovely forum not long after it came to be, perhaps to avenge my buddy Dan. In those days, it was one or the other; it was unPC to show allegiance to both forums.  Is that still the case?  Remember Melissa, one of the original admins here?  Thanks to her, I threw away my computer. 

[croft]

i could care less either way. i voted for barcade because that's what i will be doing tonight. my participation is much less in the public shoutbox not because it's public but because i'm too blind to read the screen on my phone and when i'm at home i'm busy taking online classes. sorry all.

[Pinky]

WAAAAAA! Give me back my sandbox! :stamps foot:

It's folds arms and slams the door.


psssst, I'm just busting chops because i'm rarely on the SB anymore.

[Pinky]

I understand both sides of this, but really it should be ok to let some of us who preferred the SB to be private to express that and share why we won't be engaging at the same level we were before. The private SB built a fairly high level of trust without full privacy, other than security thru obscurity, that allowed some of us to share personal details or raise issues or have conversations that we didn't want to have out in the open for the whole world to see. I'm assuming that content here, even though it scrolls out of view eventually, can now be logged by searchbots. Some of us have actual internet stalkers, people who we know for a fact are tracking our identities across message boards. This is kind of a big deal but I realize that those situations are likely the exception rather than the rule so I'm not going to pitch a fit about that. However, this is no longer a community that's safe for me, and I'd imagine that's true for some other people who are members with their irl identities firmly attached to their internet personas here.

+1, my stalkers usually try to friend me on Facebook. 

[CeeDub]

YOUR NOT FOOLING ANYONE, BDLAW!

[raspberrie]

The privacy argument is flawed.  If I registered a username "JCMan1" and sat here logged in all day, it likely wouldn't change the behavior of users.

When we had a spam problem there were all sorts of names logged in at random times of the day and that never seemed to phase anyone.

That's not really true in my case, as a datapoint. I watched who was logged in very carefully before signing in and posting in the past. There was an extra barrier to reading the shoutbox and random SB posts weren't immediately visible to anyone who randomly loaded the front page of WJC. Regardless I realize what's best for special me is not what's necessarily best for driving traffic here. I'll miss being able to participate in conversations the way I did in the past, but I realize the world does not revolve around me in my sparkly tinfoil tiara.

[glx]

Not much of a user anymore because I enjoy you people in person, so much more, but I still visit this site a lot.
Good redesigns, GLX and I like the idea of the public shoutbox for all of the stated reasons. It doesn't make sense when the casual viewer looks at the sight and doesn't really know what the SB is. + people just tend to go off in there and I like the idea of them knowing that the eyes of the world are watching!

Ceedub's right : Privacy is self directed. He is the teacher of that!

xxxxoooo

</semiannual post>

Thanks JCP.  The privacy argument is flawed.  If I registered a username "JCMan1" and sat here logged in all day, it likely wouldn't change the behavior of users.  I feel bad for those impacted by stalkers and such and we are happy to change anyones' nicknames on the board if they do not feel comfortable with their current one being tied to some sort of in person identity.  I would expect someone with severe enough issues to only use an opt-in service like Facebook or Google Plus, as there's no bar to membership here.

When we had a spam problem there were all sorts of names logged in at random times of the day and that never seemed to phase anyone.

[Hairy Potter]

Yes, I see. The three statistics that disprove your point are skewed, and the one that doesn't (if you count viewing as engagement) is the actual true stat.
I lay down my sword and gracefully withdraw from battle.
The public shout box has resulted in a near 50% increase in traffic.
Long live the public shoutbox.
Hail, Hail, Freedonia, land of the brave and free.

[jcpeace]

Not much of a user anymore because I enjoy you people in person, so much more, but I still visit this site a lot.
Good redesigns, GLX and I like the idea of the public shoutbox for all of the stated reasons. It doesn't make sense when the casual viewer looks at the sight and doesn't really know what the SB is. + people just tend to go off in there and I like the idea of them knowing that the eyes of the world are watching!

Ceedub's right : Privacy is self directed. He is the teacher of that!

xxxxoooo

</semiannual post>

[glx]

New topics down 43% on last month.
New posts down 13% on last month.
New members down 17% on last month.
Page views up 64%

Hardly a new level of engagement.

I appreciate your input, but those stats are skewed by spammers as we "remove" posts to a hidden board but they remain in the total count.  The statistic change for this month is a result of far better spam filtering in the new version of SMF.  Page views are actually a better proxy to engagement, and as you can see - that's dramatically up.

[Hairy Potter]

1) So called privacy on the interwebs is self-directed- you're as private as you choose to be.

Well apparently not.
I chose to start this thread in the remaining private section of the board. The first six or seven posts were made on those terms and subsequently made public for no other reason than Falconesque spite.

My experience here lead me to believe that this was a more intelligent and thoughtful area of the internet compared to the other place, and that a healthy seam of humor ran rich through a lot of our discussions. How on earth could anybody get so offended by something so clearly tongue in cheek?

To tell you the truth, I wasn't even that bothered about the shout box when I made the poll, but i am now.
By all means do everything you can to improve this site, I hope it goes from strength to strength, but I don't think shitting on it's core participating members then reacting wildly to the slightest criticism is the way to do it.

"The public SB isn't going away.  Since we moved to it, engagement with the site has drastically increased."

New topics down 43% on last month.
New posts down 13% on last month.
New members down 17% on last month.
Page views up 64%

Hardly a new level of engagement.

[glx]

If the administrators want this site to grow beyond a clique of catty regulars, they need to step out of that mode when some of your highest traffic people give you negative feedback. At the very least, it is user feedback.

And right now the Administrators are trying something new.  We appreciate any and all feedback, and we've heard yours and others loud and clear.  I wasn't referring to you regarding it getting personal, that was Binky.  That stuff is duly ignored.

Maybe we'll switch it back, or maybe we'll drive some regulars away but at this point it's a chance we're willing to take. 

[raspberrie]

I understand both sides of this, but really it should be ok to let some of us who preferred the SB to be private to express that and share why we won't be engaging at the same level we were before. The private SB built a fairly high level of trust without full privacy, other than security thru obscurity, that allowed some of us to share personal details or raise issues or have conversations that we didn't want to have out in the open for the whole world to see. I'm assuming that content here, even though it scrolls out of view eventually, can now be logged by searchbots. Some of us have actual internet stalkers, people who we know for a fact are tracking our identities across message boards. This is kind of a big deal but I realize that those situations are likely the exception rather than the rule so I'm not going to pitch a fit about that. However, this is no longer a community that's safe for me, and I'd imagine that's true for some other people who are members with their irl identities firmly attached to their internet personas here.

[Bobblehead]

but also we each want to use it the way we like best.

Unfortunately that's not possible in a shared world.  This is the format for this site.  If you hate it, so be it. 

Right now "Barcade" is leading in the polls.

I don't hate it, I gave the vast majority of the redesign the thumbs up (even posted so in the thread about it! ). If you will recall, I also spent time doing things like taking screenshots both on my PC and my Apple computers to show you how the interface worked and posted them so you could see them and figure out work arounds. Remember all that stuff about the missing search box?

I know that you spend a lot of time managing the site. I know from watching that MCA spends tons of time just getting rid of spammers. And apparently CeeDub spends lots of time over-reacting to people expressing their opinions.  But none of you should expect folks not to comment on stuff they don't like. If the administrators want this site to grow beyond a clique of catty regulars, they need to step out of that mode when some of your highest traffic people give you negative feedback. At the very least, it is user feedback.

[glx]

but also we each want to use it the way we like best.

Unfortunately that's not possible in a shared world.  This is the format for this site.  If you hate it, so be it. 

Right now "Barcade" is leading in the polls.

[CeeDub]

Whenever I hear or read the interjection 'but' I understand it to mean 'forget what I just said/wrote, here is what I really mean.  The goal is not to drive out the 8 - or 12 - regulars in the SB - the goal is to drive users towards engagement. I read that somewhere.
Fairly sure glx's response is irt binky's shot.

Goddam the internet is serious business.

[Bobblehead]

WAAAAAA! Give me back my sandbox! :stamps foot:
So rather than try to understand glx's statement  of pupose/direction for wired, you've made it all about you (again) Bobble. Hope you dont feel falconpunched.
Binky, any reason you directed your remark to Bobble vs. glx?

Because he assumed that I'd rise to the personal criticism and engage him in an argument?

Perhaps he didn't realize that I put a significant amount of time and money into running this site.  Or he's just an asshole.  Either way, I'm not going to do it.

What is the personal criticism here? Please identify it?

Who is being thin skinned in this conversation?

I know the amount of time and money that goes into sites, this is not my first rodeo.

[Bobblehead]

WAAAAAA! Give me back my sandbox! :stamps foot:
So rather than try to understand glx's statement  of pupose/direction for wired, you've made it all about you (again) Bobble. Hope you dont feel falconpunched.
Binky, any reason you directed your remark to Bobble vs. glx?

I understand his statement fine. I don't agree entirely with the route he's chosen to reach his goal. 

I am not making the whole thing about me. I am just one user, and I am stating what I liked about the old SB, and why. Less interesting SB means fewer visits from me.

You have a real nice attitude for an administrator: that folks who actually start--and post--in threads are somehow being babies when they express an opinion? They should just STFU on what they like about the board? Okay, whatever dude.

[glx]

WAAAAAA! Give me back my sandbox! :stamps foot:
So rather than try to understand glx's statement  of pupose/direction for wired, you've made it all about you (again) Bobble. Hope you dont feel falconpunched.
Binky, any reason you directed your remark to Bobble vs. glx?

Because he assumed that I'd rise to the personal criticism and engage him in an argument?

Perhaps he didn't realize that I put a significant amount of time and money into running this site.  Or he's just an asshole.  Either way, I'm not going to do it.

[CeeDub]

WAAAAAA! Give me back my sandbox! :stamps foot:
So rather than try to understand glx's statement  of pupose/direction for wired, you've made it all about you (again) Bobble. Hope you dont feel falconpunched.
Binky, any reason you directed your remark to Bobble vs. glx?

[Binky]

+ 1 bobble. Ironic, too, that criticism comes from the administrator that contributes the least in terms of conversation.

[Bobblehead]

From the admin who rarely takes sides on things anymore...  A dose of reality.

The public SB isn't going away.  Since we moved to it, engagement with the site has drastically increased.

This site suffers from an identity crisis.  It's used by some as a haven from JCList when they piss off Dan Prussack, then whatever issue they have passes and they're chased off back there.

It's time for something to change.  The admins put a lot of work into making this site what it is and the intended use case for it isn't the ~8 people who use the Shoutbox on a daily basis.  People coming here for that would be better served by Facebook or some other social chat service. 

We're here to disseminate information and discuss our community and neighborhood in an open, inclusive forum.  A private shoutbox, which encourages people to discuss things behind a curtain, is not complimentary to that mission.  It creates a clique-like environment that outsiders do not feel welcome in.

Thanks for admitting that the main drive was specifically to drive the regulars out the shout box (it is more like 12 than 8, not that it really matters). I think we all want the board to thrive, but also we each want to use it the way we like best. I can go back to skimming the threads without logging in now.

Facebook sucks, by the way.

[CeeDub]

1) So called privacy on the interwebs is self-directed- you're as private as you choose to be.

2) Whether someone bothers to register and log in or not,  is that really the issue? I've yet to see any caches of public shout box convos, afaik once the shouts scroll down they're in the bowels of tbe server.

3) Why can't some of the discussions move onto the forums? POST,  PEOPLE!