Regarding throwing out centuries of contract law, then I, Grego, Dealy, and scores of firefighters clearly need better legal advice. Cause we think it's going to happen.duke
They were not gambling. They could have accepted alternative employment contracts outside the City. They've worked and saved and planned their retirement under a contract of employment with JC. Changing that contract after the fact is wrong - and would likely expose the City to litigation. I agree the rules must change. And I think the rehire as consultants needs a closer look. But you cannot throw out centuries of contract law just because you don't think it's fair after the fact. You can ask people to sign a new contract from a given date, but I've never heard of asking people to sign a back-dated employment contract.
Quote from: nugnfutz on 02-22-2010, 02:54amI don't think its fair to these folks at the end of their term of service to rewrite the rules. The same with people currently in employment. You can't change their terms of employment retroactively. Put yourself in their shoes - they have probably based their life and retirement planning on contractual obligations. They're not to blame nor to victimize if the City got things wrong. Change the rules by all means, but don't hit those people that have given service to the City in good faith.Okay, I put myself in their shoes. And I thought to myself, "Holy shit! Rules are rewritten all the time! Maybe I shouldn't place the future of myself and my family in a politician's hands. Perhaps I shouldn't stock up years of sick and vacation days for a final massive payout at my maximum retirement pay rate."I don't blame them. They are gambling (wisely it turns out) that they will get a large payoff and are maximizing their gains off the system. Gambles win and lose. I'm confused on the part about good faith and giving service. Were they volunteers?duke
I don't think its fair to these folks at the end of their term of service to rewrite the rules. The same with people currently in employment. You can't change their terms of employment retroactively. Put yourself in their shoes - they have probably based their life and retirement planning on contractual obligations. They're not to blame nor to victimize if the City got things wrong. Change the rules by all means, but don't hit those people that have given service to the City in good faith.
Team Healy council members growing a backbone, or just paying lip-service?
Quote from: jehu on 02-18-2010, 09:03amI am under the belief that a lot of the people who are demanding pension reform and healthcare reform think that the city/state employees are getting a free ride. They aren't. Quote from: Pinky on 02-18-2010, 06:23amQuote from: nugnfutz on 02-17-2010, 10:49pm I know people will volunteer for free for City positions. Fire, Police and other positions. A lot of jobless folks would be more than happy to give their services to the City. Without pay and without pensions. I think we need to give them the opportunity. I'd like to see the council set this up.You cannot "volunteer and get a pension" There is much confusion about the pension system in some of these posts. Each employee pays a % of their current salary into their retirement pension. It's automatically deducted from their paycheck. I think you are confusing this with health benefits.RIF, folks.It doesn't say "volunteer and get a pension"; in fact it says exactly the opposite. Fill some positions with unpaid, no benefits volunteers.
I am under the belief that a lot of the people who are demanding pension reform and healthcare reform think that the city/state employees are getting a free ride. They aren't. Quote from: Pinky on 02-18-2010, 06:23amQuote from: nugnfutz on 02-17-2010, 10:49pm I know people will volunteer for free for City positions. Fire, Police and other positions. A lot of jobless folks would be more than happy to give their services to the City. Without pay and without pensions. I think we need to give them the opportunity. I'd like to see the council set this up.You cannot "volunteer and get a pension" There is much confusion about the pension system in some of these posts. Each employee pays a % of their current salary into their retirement pension. It's automatically deducted from their paycheck. I think you are confusing this with health benefits.
Quote from: nugnfutz on 02-17-2010, 10:49pm I know people will volunteer for free for City positions. Fire, Police and other positions. A lot of jobless folks would be more than happy to give their services to the City. Without pay and without pensions. I think we need to give them the opportunity. I'd like to see the council set this up.You cannot "volunteer and get a pension" There is much confusion about the pension system in some of these posts. Each employee pays a % of their current salary into their retirement pension. It's automatically deducted from their paycheck. I think you are confusing this with health benefits.
I know people will volunteer for free for City positions. Fire, Police and other positions. A lot of jobless folks would be more than happy to give their services to the City. Without pay and without pensions. I think we need to give them the opportunity. I'd like to see the council set this up.
Oh and why not make 10% of all City jobs voluntary? Not only Police and Fire....but all Jobs.
An Open Letter to Mayor Healy and the Jersey City Council regarding the FY 2010 Budget and impending tax increases that I will be mailing them on Monday...........