So what now....

[beachmaster]

That speech gives me chills!

and maybe the cheating analogy wasn't a good one. An apology from you Mr. Beachmaster, would be made using less teeth.

Great reply VV! you're a learnED young fellow aren't you...

[TMN]

Beachmaster, while I can't apologize for all the crimes and horrors committed by humans against their fellow humans here is a snippet of one of the best speeches ever given in my humble opinion. This says it all for me.

May we never forget the words of Martin Luther King.


Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

[Frank M]

Hi Frank M,
 
I didn't say giant hallmark card. Thats a giant trivialization.

I think there is always room for an apology even if it the act was calculated and intentional. Accidents aren't the only time you should apologize. If I were cheated on, for example, you best believe i would want an apology. It doesn't diminish the severity, but it opens the door to the healing process-and evokes a profound understanding and empathy for the assault.

And i think Barack would be far more eloquent then "Gee, we're really sorry"

Saying "I'm sorry" after committing an intentionally malicious or irresponsible act often makes me feel like I'm trying to get away with something, but I can see that may not be the case for other individuals and certainly entire countries.  I'm stubborn--what can I say?  On the other hand, I apologize for non-malicious errors and failures all the time.  (My girlfriend would just shoot me if I cheated, though.)

I use the example of World War II only because it applies to my family, but I would find an apology outrageous.  I can't say I know what it's like to be part of a group that has truly been historically marginalized. 

My point was that we should concentrate on addressing the underlying issues, which can be difficult.  It's nearly impossible to maturely discuss racial issues in large groups, for example.

[Groovejet]

This election has affected you. You're full of self loathing and you need a good cold shower.

Why not apologize to the families of the 50,000 white people who died at Gettysburg for the sake of equality?

Right, I'm off to watch more black people crying on CNN...This is pathetic.

[beachmaster]

 Hi Frank M,
 
I didn't say giant hallmark card. Thats a giant trivialization.

I think there is always room for an apology even if it the act was calculated and intentional. Accidents aren't the only time you should apologize. If I were cheated on, for example, you best believe i would want an apology. It doesn't diminish the severity, but it opens the door to the healing process-and evokes a profound understanding and empathy for the assault.

And i think Barack would be far more eloquent then "Gee, we're really sorry"


[/quote]

[VV]

I would like to see progress in seeing our image repaired in the international arena, more emphasis on diplomacy and not foisting our will on others sheerly out of self-interest or ulterior motive, efforts toward improving our public schools/American education especially in science and technology, investing in our nation's infrastructure and cities, harnessing and deploying renewable energy/green initiatives, protecting the environment seriously, mitigating poverty to the greatest extent possible, quelling the concentration of wealth where 1% of population controls 40% of wealth, paying attention to the most marginalized among us, assisting them with some of their needs to enable better quality of life (senior citizens, low income children, veterans with mental/physical problems, non-violent offenders etc.) and distancing ourselves from social cultural wars, unnecessary distractions (gay marriage, etc.).

Beachmaster raises a great point.  In the U.S, the two groups who endured unspeakable horror were Native Americans and blacks.  I find it curious that some always raise the specter of unquantifiable reparations at the mere mention of an apology when this has been done internationally vis-a-vis other groups who've undergone atrocities.  As a black person, I don't know anyone in my social circles that either wants reparations or think it's a viable option. Yes, the rationale has been posited (Randall Robinson's book) but many realize the funds are neither there (and will never be) nor how to deal with such a byzantine morass of complex issues.  A museum on the mall reflecting the black Holocaust http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-03-18-national-slavery-museum_N.htm along with the due inscription on the facade would be an appropriate measure toward the black sacrifice in the founding and making of this country.  Not sure how slavery is taught today in schools but when I was growing up, it was very white washed to the point it seemed like it was a "peculiar yet benevolent institution" glossing over the horrors and warped complexities (torture/violence, rape/sexual slavery, breaking up of families, enslaving your own children, e.g. Jefferson's)  And I think that applies to many others (my contemporaries) as some white people I come across seem to have a propensity for making analogies concerning their ancestors coming over from Europe as more or less no different from the black experience (opportunity here in America but not back in country of origin).  One of them, Congressman Carroll (Morris County) even had the audacity to claim that blacks should be GRATEFUL that they were slaves and rescued from Africa (sophomoric argument when there's no way to ascertain to what extent how the precipitating events of slavery, colonialism and rapacious scramble for Africa's resources underdeveloped and pillaged it outside of some of its despots).  Much has been studied and theorized about the impacts of slavery on the black psyche and what pathological depredations it may have caused in some blacks (culture of low expectations, self-destruction, nihilism, etc.) but little has seemingly been analyzed as to its corresponding impacts on white people and whatever thoughts slavery or race may have indelibly instilled into the white psyche (3/5th of a human being; www.withoutsanctuary.org; Rosewood, FL; Tulsa, OK "Black Wall Street").  I think an apology inscribed on the walls of a museum/monument for posterity would acknowledge what grievous error was committed and give many blacks solace and succor when some whites engage them with the usual tableaux of banal Brian-Em Cankicker et al talking points that makes one's eyes glaze over: "(1) my ancestors made it, so can blacks; (2) we never owned slaves or had any part in it so what gives; (3) your ancestors sold you, so don't blame us."  I am heartened by Barack's ascendancy as it is a testament that younger generations don't necessarily see race as overarching matter and that (pardon as heartless as it sounds) the older generation harboring certain views will pass with the passage of time.

[Frank M]

I'm not a fan of formal apologies.  There's no apology for slavery and genocide.  It's not like somebody accidentally threw a baseball through a window.  Apologies also diminish the severity of the original, purposeful act which is somewhat insulting.  There's also the complication that many, if not most of our ancestors weren't living in America during that period.  (Italy and Ireland for my part.)

Germany has never issued a formal apology for the Holocaust as far as I know.  My late grandmother spent five years in a concentration camp until it was liberated by American troops, but I don't think she nor anybody else in our family was ever looking for an official "gee, we're really sorry."  There is simply no apology, but still, I bear no grudge toward modern day Germany.  It's only "their fault" if we insist on looking at in a completely abstract sense.

The most important lesson we should to take from our species' most horrible acts is that we are all capable of committing them.  I'd like to see education address the often painful reality of ourselves instead of just teaching who did what to whom.  That's a lot more challenging on a personal level than for a governments to send out the equivalent of giant Hallmark cards.

I appreciate what you'd like to accomplish, though. 

I was talking particularly about the black and native american experience in this country, but i think it applies across ethnic racial lines across the world. I think the reason people are so hesitant about apologizing is because they dread the responsibility and accountability it implies. But that's one dimensional.

[beachmaster]

 I was talking particularly about the black and native american experience in this country, but i think it applies across ethnic racial lines across the world. I think the reason people are so hesitant about apologizing is because they dread the responsibility and accountability it implies. But that's one dimensional.

So now people must look at the social circumstances surrounding inequality not just the racial ones. WE CAN FINALLY look at CLASS as the source of inequality. but anyway, i digress.

Doesn't this statement obviate the rest of your argument?  There's plenty of (insert ethnic group here) who could theoretically wind up on your list for apologies.

Platitudes.

[bdlaw]

So now people must look at the social circumstances surrounding inequality not just the racial ones. WE CAN FINALLY look at CLASS as the source of inequality. but anyway, i digress.

Doesn't this statement obviate the rest of your argument?  There's plenty of (insert ethnic group here) who could theoretically wind up on your list for apologies.

Platitudes.

[beachmaster]

Because i don't think you can just talk about Change without looking deeper as to what transformation really means. I think issuing an apology for slavery and the genocide against Native Americans would go a long way on building understanding among all americans about how wealth was built in this country and how we continue to benefit from previous crimes.

How can you really change a country when wounds from the past have not been healed? Transformational justice is an idea that says that countries can only move forward collectively when the individual has moved forward internally. If not you have a collective consciousness based on anger and resentment-and stagnation insues. Transformational justice in this country would start from a place of healing and healing starts from apology...

 Obama truly proves that anything is possible and that the color of your skin does not mean that you can not succeed and flourish. This huge step forward was taken on Tuesday and now the next step is addressing why this isn't the case for many americans. What historical facts persist that diminish this hope for many and how we can move forward as a more united country that eliminates disparities based on race. Through Obama, a renewed sense of hope and pride was instilled in people of color across the country but also a new sense of responsibility. In many ways, we can no longer blame race. THIS IS HUGE.

So now people must look at the social circumstances surrounding inequality not just the racial ones. WE CAN FINALLY look at CLASS as the source of inequality. but anyway, i digress.

And in terms of the reparations. They won't work. Handouts and Aid never does. That being said there are other ways to ensure that people of color are part of the transformation process in this country and that will come from a sense of ownership of this country- and i think that ownership will start from a formal apology.

I would like to see a formal apology for slavery and for the atrocities against native americans. I think an apology would go a long way towards the start of a new america.

Okay, beachmaster, I've been thinking about this comment for a bit and have to get more details.  I'm genuinely curious about what you are thinking.  I can't see any use of an apology without an ulterior motive.  I certainly think if the US pushes Turkey to issue a formal apology to the Armenians then the US should be willing to take its own medicine first.  Especially since the US's atrocities are on a much greater scale.

The apology itself by Obama would take about 4 minutes.  I can't really see how this would satisfy anyone.  The aftermath of lawsuits and reparations would never end....

duke

[duke_of_earl]

I would like to see a formal apology for slavery and for the atrocities against native americans. I think an apology would go a long way towards the start of a new america.

Okay, beachmaster, I've been thinking about this comment for a bit and have to get more details.  I'm genuinely curious about what you are thinking.  I can't see any use of an apology without an ulterior motive.  I certainly think if the US pushes Turkey to issue a formal apology to the Armenians then the US should be willing to take its own medicine first.  Especially since the US's atrocities are on a much greater scale.

The apology itself by Obama would take about 4 minutes.  I can't really see how this would satisfy anyone.  The aftermath of lawsuits and reparations would never end....

duke

[duke_of_earl]

Two more things to add to my list...I would like to see the successful implementation of a voting machines.  It's ridiculous that the government can't manage such a simple task. I would also like an amendment to the constitution eliminating the electoral college.

duke

[beachmaster]

Oh Man... poor lost soul.

[Soshin]

I would like to see a formal apology for slavery and for the atrocities against native americans. I think an apology would go a long way towards the start of a new america.

I agree with you but someone needs to tell Soulja Boy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/nov/04/soulja-boy-slavery

[beachmaster]

I would like to see a formal apology for slavery and for the atrocities against native americans. I think an apology would go a long way towards the start of a new america.

[bdlaw]

Additionally, I would like to see the President and Congress fix the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT); every year more and more people that were never supposed to pay this get nailed by it because the way the law is written it's never been adjusted for inflation.

[TheBadGuyWins]

IF we are going to enact new regulatory regimes for the insurance carriers (which I don't think is a terrible idea), I would like to see it at the Federal level. The current state by state melange of regulatory bodies is confusing, complex, cryptic, and not good for the consumer.

Federal Regulation is exactly what I had in mind, specifically recalling local gal Christine Whitman's application of a Tier System to an already exasperatingly frustrating NJ automotive insurance mess. I guess heavy restrictions on corporate lobbying in Washington couldn't hurt the cause, either. Especially considering how much campaign money is generated by "owing favors". Or, am I being paranoid at this point?

[bdlaw]

IF we are going to enact new regulatory regimes for the insurance carriers (which I don't think is a terrible idea), I would like to see it at the Federal level. The current state by state melange of regulatory bodies is confusing, complex, cryptic, and not good for the consumer.

[TheBadGuyWins]

Obama has had his transition team working for quite some time now, luckily not in vain. Hopefully, we'll be able to see the new administration hit the ground running.

I hope this doesn't sound too trivial next to the financial woes of late, but I'd like to see some focused consumer protection with regards to insurance. Health insurance, car insurance, home owners insurance.........many of these companies get away with murder.
 
Home owners insurance.....how carriers can legally cancel policies on home owners just prior to projected catastrophic events is beyond me. "Oh, we're expecting a pretty bad hurricane in your area, and you're in the flood zone...soooo, we've withdrawn your coverage. Thanks for always paying on time, though!"  It's fucking criminal.

Health insurance.......where do I even start? Have any of you gone to the emergency room before only to have your health insurance provider later tell you that you won't be covered....because your trip to the ER wasn't an emergency? This has happened to people who sought medical help because they were having difficulty breathing. BREATHING. I'd say that ranks fairly high on the "Don't Take Any Fucking Chances" list.

Car insurance providers have done a masterful job of drawing direct correlations between credit scores, education levels and car accidents. So, if you are in fear of forclosure, job loss, and rising living cost, look at the bright side......I just saved a bunch of money on MY car insurance. You? You're screwed (that is, if you are one of the many groups of people this type of policy targets....specifically the less educated, less dollarwise masses who have, in many ways, every right to blame a failed education system for their Geico rate hikes. "Perfect driving record? Fuck you, pay me")

Oh, and I'd like to see free health care for children in the US. Not insurance related, and it means a tax hike, but its damned necessary. If I had a daughter who couldn't get proper care for an easily treatable, but painfully expensive, health problem (possibly terminal if not taken care of soon), I'd be knocking over banks rather than organizing spaghetti dinners while watching her slowly perish because the removal of an operable tumor costs the equivelant of 10,000 plates of pasta w/ meatballs.

Hey, a guy can dream, right?

[TMN]

Okay, what do you guys want to see?

Now that the republicans are out, I'd like to see a thorough purging of Intelligent Design begin taught in classrooms. 

Yeah, that too!

[duke_of_earl]

Okay, what do you guys want to see?

Now that the republicans are out, I'd like to see a thorough purging of Intelligent Design begin taught in classrooms.  A complete restocking of the Supreme court with liberal judges.  A shrinking of the racial divide, both real and perceived.

I'd like to see the Republicans fall back and sort out why they lost libertarians and independents in droves and cleanse their party and go back to their roots.  I'd like to see Obama pursue and catch Bin Laden and get us out of Afghanistan (or at least minimize the force).

I want to see Obama succeed and succeed well.  I think he has a very difficult job ahead and will have to break a lot of his promises, but I'm perfectly fine with a lack of extra programs.

That's my quick list before I have to run out the door.

duke

[Soshin]

Criminalizing policy differences is for banana republics, not a nation that purports to lead the free world. If you think that American politics is nasty now, just wait until the consequence of an election loss is a criminal show trial. We've already gone too far in that direction, with Scooter Libby carrying a felony conviction for remembering a conversation differently than a reporter. An administration that wants to heal the country and move towards a more bi-partisan politics would not engage in such witch hunts.

mr.t

No offense but starting a war under false pretenses is not a "policy difference".  I would want them to apply this across the board to the people who manufactured this war... from the neo-cons of the Bush administration to the "socialists" of the Blair administration in the UK (an administration I actually voted for first time out) and any CEO's in between.

[mr.t]

The horror..... The horror.......

And I was so in need of a flying flip, too.

mr.t

What would you people out there like to see take priority? 

Me, I would like to see Obama work on our problems/issues first. Then focus on the rest of the world. I, too, would like to see us out of the two wars. Bring our troops home. I don't give a flying flip (much to mr.t's horror) about settling other countries issues. We have enough issues here in the U.S. of A to worry about.

[mr.t]

Criminalizing policy differences is for banana republics, not a nation that purports to lead the free world. If you think that American politics is nasty now, just wait until the consequence of an election loss is a criminal show trial. We've already gone too far in that direction, with Scooter Libby carrying a felony conviction for remembering a conversation differently than a reporter. An administration that wants to heal the country and move towards a more bi-partisan politics would not engage in such witch hunts.

mr.t

The election is over, Obama won, where do we go from here?  If his concession speech is to be believed then this has the possibility of being the most bi-partisan administration ever.  What would you people out there like to see take priority? 

Me, I want to see him end the two wars and work to restore some prestige to the United Nations.  On top of that I want to see some justice administered to the people who start preemptive wars under false circumstances. 

I know Obama already said that he has no desire to get bogged down in something that many will see as a partisan witch-hunt, perhaps this is something that the war crimes tribunal in the Hague can deal with. 

Invite the subpoenas, open the vaults and let the world courts sort it out.  As we know with convicted war criminal Henry Kissinger, these courts do not always manage to lock people up, but I think the symbolism of a guilty conviction would be immense.

Okay, what do you guys want to see?

[jennymayla]

The election is over, Obama won, where do we go from here?  If his concession speech is to be believed then this has the possibility of being the most bi-partisan administration ever.  What would you people out there like to see take priority? 

Me, I want to see him end the two wars and work to restore some prestige to the United Nations.  On top of that I want to see some justice administered to the people who start preemptive wars under false circumstances. 

I know Obama already said that he has no desire to get bogged down in something that many will see as a partisan witch-hunt, perhaps this is something that the war crimes tribunal in the Hague can deal with. 

Invite the subpoenas, open the vaults and let the world courts sort it out.  As we know with convicted war criminal Henry Kissinger, these courts do not always manage to lock people up, but I think the symbolism of a guilty conviction would be immense.

Okay, what do you guys want to see?

American Idol.