So what now....

[Soshin]

Sorry to interrupt the big group hug, but I found this kinda interesting.

Obama is 50% white, 42.75% Arabic and only 6.25% Negro. (His great grandmother on his fathers side)

As such he doesn't federally qualify as an African American.

We have had 5 other presidents (Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Coolige, Harding) Who actually were of African decent.

Lincoln's white father was actually castrated and his genetic father was a slave.

DNA tests have proved that he was 50% negro.

http://www.computerhealth.org/ebook/5blkpres.htm

And now, back to the self loathing.......

What... the.. fuck.  Did you grow up in Johanesburg circa 1984 or something?  What's your DNA make-up? 

Groovejet is 50% racist, 42.75% old and only 6.25% dinosaur.

Please go back to jerking off to your copy of the Turner Diaries in private.

[beachmaster]

Groovejet you are so unbelievably hung up on race-you may want to take some time examining your own self-loathing rather than that of others. I think irrespective of his racial or ethnic makeup the point is that Obama considers himself an African American-and the other presidents you mentioned did not.

Also, the fact that as you put it "he doesn't federally qualify as an African-American" is laughable. Do you know anyone that allows the federal government to determine their cultural affinity or racial identity?

And because you obviously didn't or couldn't read the memo... some people find the term "negro" offensive- and have evolved past using it.

Sorry to interrupt the big group hug, but I found this kinda interesting.

Obama is 50% white, 42.75% Arabic and only 6.25% Negro. (His great grandmother on his fathers side)

As such he doesn't federally qualify as an African American.

We have had 5 other presidents (Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Coolige, Harding) Who actually were of African decent.

Lincoln's white father was actually castrated and his genetic father was a slave.

DNA tests have proved that he was 50% negro.

http://www.computerhealth.org/ebook/5blkpres.htm

And now, back to the self loathing.......

[skwirrlking]

Voting for or against Obama, in my household at least, had nothing to do with race.

Sad that this is still a issue for some people.

+1 - but the media certainly won't let it go.

[bdlaw]

Voting for or against Obama, in my household at least, had nothing to do with race.

Sad that this is still a issue for some people.

[TMN]

Sorry to interrupt the big group hug, but I found this kinda interesting.

Obama is 50% white, 42.75% Arabic and only 6.25% Negro. (His great grandmother on his fathers side)

As such he doesn't federally qualify as an African American.

We have had 5 other presidents (Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Coolige, Harding) Who actually were of African decent.

Lincoln's white father was actually castrated and his genetic father was a slave.

DNA tests have proved that he was 50% negro.

http://www.computerhealth.org/ebook/5blkpres.htm

And now, back to the self loathing.......

Ugh. I don't care if Obama is pink with purple stripes. Instead of being concerned about his heritage/ethnicity lets focus on what he'll do to dig us out of this awful mess our country is in.

[Groovejet]

Sorry to interrupt the big group hug, but I found this kinda interesting.

Obama is 50% white, 42.75% Arabic and only 6.25% Negro. (His great grandmother on his fathers side)

As such he doesn't federally qualify as an African American.

We have had 5 other presidents (Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Coolige, Harding) Who actually were of African decent.

Lincoln's white father was actually castrated and his genetic father was a slave.

DNA tests have proved that he was 50% negro.

http://www.computerhealth.org/ebook/5blkpres.htm

And now, back to the self loathing.......

[VV]

When what has been done internationally?

duke

http://www.upenn.edu/pnc/politicalapologies.html

That other governments have issued formal apologies to aggrieved groups for past atrocities.  Your link notes that this is the "first time a branch of the federal government has issued an apology" and indicates that the sponsor comes from a black district.  As Darna says, it's interesting that some can speak in absolutes as to whether or not an apology is merited.  The reason why I don't think reparations are feasible is because you cannot put a pricetag on purportedly 10 million people dying during the middle passage and while being "seasoned" in slave camps  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1p277.html or on the untold and unimaginable wealth that a slave economy created and which is part of the very fabric of modern day capitalism (Brooks Brothers, Aetna, Bank of America, the defunct Lehman Brothers, etc.) over 200+ years of forced servitude, never mind jim crow that followed.  Accordingly, I think an apology (not just something spouted from a podium in the House) but something tangible as inscribed on a monument would be some level of atonement of acknowledging a calamitous wrong when juxtaposed with the reality that you have people in NJ like Congressman Carroll who have the audacity to say that blacks should be grateful they were once slaves. And to mitigate your concerns Duke about $$$, the appropriate disclaimers could be included in any legislation passed.       

[VV]

What I would like to see is a program that helps people pay for higher education. I think it would be great if once you graduate college, a percentage of the income tax you normally would be paying, went towards paying off your school loans. Nothing pisses me off more than watching the balance of my student loan NOT MOVING as I make more than the minimum payment month after month!

And, while on the topic, I think that EDUCATION is key to being successful on all levels. Educated people tend to be richer and healthier than uneducated people. It is the great equalizer. The biggest obstacle for most people is paying for it.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/18/free_lunch_how_the_wealthiest_americans

So true.  I saw this gentleman on TV over the weekend and he mentioned that Sallie Mae's profits were 57% last year.  Mmmm. I finished college in 1992 and paid off my loans in 2005.  I am still paying off my law school loans and will be for some time and as you state, I don't see the balance moving although I try to pay extra.  It's to have us all mired in debt to some extent.     

[kitten]

Lastly, what are you thinking with modernity?  I don't have any big problem with copper and prefer a hard infrastructure.  Curiously, one of my pet ideas is that along with electricity and other essentials, broadband should be supplied by the government.

Specifically, I was thinking fiber optics and WiFi. I don't have any problem with copper, other than the low bandwidth — as many of you know, I'm a sucker for old technology that still works, and copper's got great staying power.

That said, I had a conversation with a Verizon tech a while back when we moved into our new place. Even though our apartment had jacks, he added a new copper line rather than using the one that was already there.

When I asked him why, he told me that, by this point, many of the wires you see hanging off of poles in JC (and throughout the country, especially on the East Coast) aren't actually connected to anything. Since the rat's nest of cables is so tangled and confused, rather than decommissioning the old lines, or even bothering to figure out which lines are the old ones, they just keep adding new ones. I think this is just one of many great opportunities for the government (or, hell, independent contractors, so long as they're subject to heavy oversight and regulation) to rip and replace.

Yeah, I totally agree with this too. My Father-in-law, while visiting from Stockholm, said, "I know why you think Sweden is cleaner than here. It's all of these wires... we don't have that. All of our wires are underground. We have just as much litter."

It's been bugging me for a while, especially in the Heights where I feel it is wire overload.

I remember being a little kid, laying in the back seat of my parents car looking up at the sky and watching the telephone poles and wires go by. It's a nice memory, one I'm perfectly content to have attached to my childhood.

[jennymayla]

Not only rip and replace but recycle.  The Chinese are devouring commodity metals like crazy.

Slight OT but worth checking out:

http://www.addressthemess.com/

[bdlaw]

Not only rip and replace but recycle.  The Chinese are devouring commodity metals like crazy.

[AmbushBug]

Lastly, what are you thinking with modernity?  I don't have any big problem with copper and prefer a hard infrastructure.  Curiously, one of my pet ideas is that along with electricity and other essentials, broadband should be supplied by the government.

Specifically, I was thinking fiber optics and WiFi. I don't have any problem with copper, other than the low bandwidth — as many of you know, I'm a sucker for old technology that still works, and copper's got great staying power.

That said, I had a conversation with a Verizon tech a while back when we moved into our new place. Even though our apartment had jacks, he added a new copper line rather than using the one that was already there.

When I asked him why, he told me that, by this point, many of the wires you see hanging off of poles in JC (and throughout the country, especially on the East Coast) aren't actually connected to anything. Since the rat's nest of cables is so tangled and confused, rather than decommissioning the old lines, or even bothering to figure out which lines are the old ones, they just keep adding new ones. I think this is just one of many great opportunities for the government (or, hell, independent contractors, so long as they're subject to heavy oversight and regulation) to rip and replace.

Other infrastructure besides connectivity? I was mostly thinking about revitalizing urban transport, (the PATH sure could use an overhaul) and highways & tollbooths, and fixing our electrical grid (no more region-wide blackouts caused by a single over-allocated line). America's very existence relies on a vast array of complex technological systems, and we ought to be training and employing people improve them, rather than letting them rot and farming out the work to foreign companies. Hell, we could start here in JC by updating our pathetic excuse for a sewer system.

If Obama really wants to create "green collar" jobs, he could start with a national program to help everyday Americans install solar panels onto their homes. It's effective, relatively cheap in the short-term (and very cheap in the long-term), and fosters the sense of community he so loves talking about. I don't want to sound too albesque, but that's the kind of vast undertaking that I think is completely within our means.

[duke_of_earl]

Second, I want to see a defense of marriage amendment to the constitution, claiming that two consenting adults, regardless of their genes, must be treated equally in the eyes of the law. This is a separation of church and state issue (since marriage is a religious matter, not a governmental one), and should be treated as such.
...
Most importantly, though, I want to see a FDR-style push to revitalize American infrastructure, which is currently crumbling, in order to create jobs, improve morale among American workers, and bring some much-needed modernity to American homes. We fucking invented the internet—why are we still using copper to access it?

Nice wish list, I agree completely with the exception of FDR-style.  More of a detail to your overall point, but I would prefer the groundwork be laid and private industry filling the gap rather than the government doing it.

With regard to marriage, I agree too.  I would like to see it taken a step further and have the government retire the word "marriage" from their vocabulary.  As you say, marriage is a religious matter.  The government should use the word "union" or some such and make clear the separation.

Lastly, what are you thinking with modernity?  I don't have any big problem with copper and prefer a hard infrastructure.  Curiously, one of my pet ideas is that along with electricity and other essentials, broadband should be supplied by the government.  It's now crucial for communication, education, entertainment, and safety.

Again, excellent and thoughtful post.

duke

[Darna]

Regarding an apology for slavery, it seems to me that the only persons who truly have a right to weigh in on this subject are African-Americans, since they bear the costs of slavery's legacy.  Only someone who understands that experience can truly say whether an apology is warranted or not.  It seems absurd to me that someone who hasn't experienced a heritage resulting from slavery can say that an apology is trivial or unwarranted.

[AmbushBug]

w/r/t a formal apology, I agree with Frank; I think it would only trivialize the horror of slavery. The very idea that you could mitigate such a tragedy with a speech or a monument seems absurd to me. The proper way for a nation to apologize for past misdeeds lies in how we teach our children about them. Speaking of which:

Not sure how slavery is taught today in schools but when I was growing up, it was very white washed to the point it seemed like it was a "peculiar yet benevolent institution" glossing over the horrors and warped complexities (torture/violence, rape/sexual slavery, breaking up of families, enslaving your own children, e.g. Jefferson's)  And I think that applies to many others (my contemporaries) as some white people I come across seem to have a propensity for making analogies concerning their ancestors coming over from Europe as more or less no different from the black experience (opportunity here in America but not back in country of origin)

My experience, as a child of the Reagan era in NJ, could not have been more different (thankfully). We were taught in no uncertain terms that our early country was built on the backs of slaves (first European whites, then entirely African), and that the Civil War was fought entirely to rid our Union of human bondage—to a fault, in fact, as it was only in college and in my own reading that I learned about things like the preservation of the Union. Still, I think that's progress. And it has a far more lasting effect than a speech.

All that said, I'm a big fan of monuments, and I think a Liberty monument in the nation's capitol would be a great addition, especailly now, 143 years after reconstruction, when the promise of the emancipation has finally been realized.

But all that's far, far down on my list of what I want Barack Obama to do as president. Before we focus on the problems from two centuries ago, let's fix the problems of this one. First term stuff, if you will.

Ambush Bug's Christmas Inaugeration List:

What I want from the president now is, first, to repeal the Patriot Act, and a complete overhaul of the TSA and OHS, which I believe currently do far more harm than good.

I also want Obama to close the prisons and Guantanamo and any Black Sites and offer fair, open trials to the detainees there, so we can discover who actually intends the country harm and who is simply a victim of chance and an over-aggressive, undiscerning government.

Second, I want to see a defense of marriage amendment to the constitution, claiming that two consenting adults, regardless of their genes, must be treated equally in the eyes of the law. This is a separation of church and state issue (since marriage is a religious matter, not a governmental one), and should be treated as such. Regardless of what the church says, all committed couples should be equal in the eyes of the law. Also, I'd like that phrase, "Defense of marriage," to be used specifically, because my opinion of what needs to be defended is very different than that of the culture warriors, and it's culturally important to use their own rhetoric against them. California's Prop 8 does not defend marriage, it debases it, and it's time for America to move on from our pettiness about this.

Third, I'd like to see a net neutrality law that forces ISPs to keep the internet free and fair.

Finally, I'd like to see marijuana decriminalized, and, far more importantly, an end to Reagan-era mandatory minimum sentencing.

Most importantly, though, I want to see a FDR-style push to revitalize American infrastructure, which is currently crumbling, in order to create jobs, improve morale among American workers, and bring some much-needed modernity to American homes. We fucking invented the internet—why are we still using copper to access it?

I'm sure I'll come up with more as I think more about it, but those are my big issues: Ethics in how we gather intelligence and act on it, fairness in marriage and family life, fairness in online communication, freedom of choice (both in terms of what we can put in and what we can take out of our bodies), and, most importantly, a rebuilding of the Union itself.

If President Obama can accomplish even two of these, I will be very happy to have voted for him.

[Frank M]

The often extraordinary cost of higher education is a significant problem in the first place.  Maybe I'm pulling this number out of my ass, but I don't think tuition fees that are the equivalent of $100/hour are terribly uncommon.  That's not unfair for private instruction, but given the efficiency of teaching a number of people simultaneously, it seems absurd.  There's either some very wasteful spending going on, or somebody is getting filthy rich.  Either way, we're being taken advantage of.

What I would like to see is a program that helps people pay for higher education. I think it would be great if once you graduate college, a percentage of the income tax you normally would be paying, went towards paying off your school loans. Nothing pisses me off more than watching the balance of my student loan NOT MOVING as I make more than the minimum payment month after month!

And, while on the topic, I think that EDUCATION is key to being successful on all levels. Educated people tend to be richer and healthier than uneducated people. It is the great equalizer. The biggest obstacle for most people is paying for it.

[duke_of_earl]

What I would like to see is a program that helps people pay for higher education. I think it would be great if once you graduate college, a percentage of the income tax you normally would be paying, went towards paying off your school loans. Nothing pisses me off more than watching the balance of my student loan NOT MOVING as I make more than the minimum payment month after month!

And, while on the topic, I think that EDUCATION is key to being successful on all levels. Educated people tend to be richer and healthier than uneducated people. It is the great equalizer. The biggest obstacle for most people is paying for it.

Both candidates were talking about this.  Better education before and after the normal school route.  What I'd like to see is more quality time spent when people are in the classroom for primary education.  Many people I talk to recall being so bored by classes and not challenged through high school.  I think if more effort were put into primary education then there would be less of a demand for higher education.

As to the great equalizer, the reverse it true.  Richer and healthier people tend to be better educated.  Which follows which?

duke

[duke_of_earl]

Beachmaster raises a great point.  In the U.S, the two groups who endured unspeakable horror were Native Americans and blacks.  I find it curious that some always raise the specter of unquantifiable reparations at the mere mention of an apology when this has been done internationally vis-a-vis other groups who've undergone atrocities.  As a black person, I don't know anyone in my social circles that either wants reparations or think it's a viable option.

When what has been done internationally?

I was only asking beachmaster what her intent was and opened the door to reparations as a curiosity.  I give almost no value to an apology whereas beachmaster gives it the power of healing.  If that will make some people happy, so be it, I endorse the apology.  In fact, one has already been given this year by the House of Representatives so, happily, the healing has already begun.

As for separation of the apology and reparations.  I accept your anecdotal evidence as true, however, others don't separate the two issues.  The NAACP and other organizations as well as African nations believe in reparations (even if Obama does not).

duke

[bdlaw]

Kitten, I whole-heartedly agree that higher education should be more readily obtainable and affordable.  How, I don't know.

I just recently passed the ten year mark (missed my reunion but whatev's) and am this month making my final payment on my BA.  Something not right about taking ten years to pay off a degree.

[bdlaw]

This election has affected you. You're full of self loathing and you need a good cold shower.

Why not apologize to the families of the 50,000 white people who died at Gettysburg for the sake of equality?

Right, I'm off to watch more black people crying on CNN...This is pathetic.

Hi.  We try not to make personal attacks here, unless they are in person, over mutliple beer, and there are witnesses. 

In other words, your post is a bit uncalled for.

(DISCLAIMER:  I'm not in charge and don't officially represent the feelings of Management...but I think they would agree.)

Speaking as part of , but not on behalf of, Management- I agree.

[beachmaster]

Kinde, don't get any ideas about the power of apology! i'll stick Groovejet on you...

Hi Frank M,
 
I didn't say giant hallmark card. Thats a giant trivialization.

I think there is always room for an apology even if it the act was calculated and intentional. Accidents aren't the only time you should apologize. If I were cheated on, for example, you best believe i would want an apology. It doesn't diminish the severity, but it opens the door to the healing process-and evokes a profound understanding and empathy for the assault.

And i think Barack would be far more eloquent then "Gee, we're really sorry"

Great Analogy!

[Kindelan]

Hi Frank M,
 
I didn't say giant hallmark card. Thats a giant trivialization.

I think there is always room for an apology even if it the act was calculated and intentional. Accidents aren't the only time you should apologize. If I were cheated on, for example, you best believe i would want an apology. It doesn't diminish the severity, but it opens the door to the healing process-and evokes a profound understanding and empathy for the assault.

And i think Barack would be far more eloquent then "Gee, we're really sorry"

Great Analogy!

[jennymayla]

What I would like to see is a program that helps people pay for higher education. I think it would be great if once you graduate college, a percentage of the income tax you normally would be paying, went towards paying off your school loans. Nothing pisses me off more than watching the balance of my student loan NOT MOVING as I make more than the minimum payment month after month!

And, while on the topic, I think that EDUCATION is key to being successful on all levels. Educated people tend to be richer and healthier than uneducated people. It is the great equalizer. The biggest obstacle for most people is paying for it.

This is a huge point and I agree wholeheartedly. 

Check out my friends' website to see how they are dealing with student loan debt.  It's a love story/financial story and it's fun to check in on now and again.

operationnightbrace.blogspot.com

[jennymayla]

This election has affected you. You're full of self loathing and you need a good cold shower.

Why not apologize to the families of the 50,000 white people who died at Gettysburg for the sake of equality?

Right, I'm off to watch more black people crying on CNN...This is pathetic.

Hi.  We try not to make personal attacks here, unless they are in person, over mutliple beer, and there are witnesses. 

In other words, your post is a bit uncalled for.

(DISCLAIMER:  I'm not in charge and don't officially represent the feelings of Management...but I think they would agree.)

[kitten]

What I would like to see is a program that helps people pay for higher education. I think it would be great if once you graduate college, a percentage of the income tax you normally would be paying, went towards paying off your school loans. Nothing pisses me off more than watching the balance of my student loan NOT MOVING as I make more than the minimum payment month after month!

And, while on the topic, I think that EDUCATION is key to being successful on all levels. Educated people tend to be richer and healthier than uneducated people. It is the great equalizer. The biggest obstacle for most people is paying for it.