Verizon DSL v. FIOS v. Comcast

[AmbushBug]

Don't lost heart, Duke. The first guy who came to install FiOS was very well meaning but apparently couldn't have been more wrong about the installation. When he told me he'd  have to have to drill I ended up putting it off for over a month (calling the LL, talking to my super, etc.).

When I finally called Verizon and they sent back a different guy to install it, he was able to put it in, no drilling, no problem.

I know it's a giant pain, but if you can take the day off, I'd get a second opinion.

[fasteddie]

I just went through this a few weeks ago. You don't need an outlet outside. The power pack can be plugged in inside and low voltage runs out to the ONT on CAT5 cable. If the ONT is mounted outside you only need maybe a 1/2" or 5/8" hole drilled for the power cable, the phone cable and the video coax. The reason you need a 1" hole for the fiber is because they have a huge (stupidly oversized) preterminated connector on the fiber cable which itself is only about 1/4" in diameter. Also, if you mount the ONT outside, you need a copper ground wire run all the way from the breaker box, they won't ground to a water pipe. I opted for the inside mounting and drilled the 1" hole through the brick myself. Actually, it was only 7/8".

[duke_of_earl]

Well, my first attempt at FiOS was denied.  For those of you considering this, it is not like installing DSL or cable.  Evidently they have to drill a 1" diameter hole into your house...that is, if you want to have the fiber run straight into your house.  If not, then you need to have some powered enclosed space outside and they will run powered cables around your house.

We ran through a myriad of options and had to send the installer away.

Make sure you check their web site.

FiOS Installation

And don't believe their tag line:

Switching from cable has never been easier!

I'm still reviewing how the install can be done, but the current plan is to hire and electrician to run a new outlet from a breaker inside the house.  And I'm sitting around wondering how bad my cable really is...

duke

[nugnfutz]

@nugnfutz:

Yes, it's DNS.  Is it wrong to not want to change my default DNS provider?  Also, they throttled my torrents so it would slow my connections to a crawl.  I also suspect they are screwing with my Vonage.  Lastly, I really hate their policy on packet shaping.

All the DNS server does is translate URLs to underlying IP addresses. You can use any public DNS servers with any internet service provider. I've even used Verizon DNS servers on Comcast. If there's a problem with the DNS server, or a problem connecting to it, you can experience an internet "outage".

Comcast DNS servers have historically been unreliable. It's why I swapped to using opendns.com. It's free, and they explain how to set it up. They also filter nasty stuff for you. You can use opendns.com too with Fios. You don't even need to sign up for it - just use the DNS servers below.

208.67.222.222
208.67.220.220

[duke_of_earl]

@AB:

Thank you very much!  Installer is coming tomorrow.  My bill will actually drop, but that's cause I didn't call Comcast to get the latest "deal" and negotiate yet again.  I'd rather have a multi-year package lock and not have to worry about paying a spiked fee every six months.

I work from home sometimes and was quite worried about downtime on the new system so appreciate the post.

@nugnfutz:

Yes, it's DNS.  Is it wrong to not want to change my default DNS provider?  Also, they throttled my torrents so it would slow my connections to a crawl.  I also suspect they are screwing with my Vonage.  Lastly, I really hate their policy on packet shaping.

@Pink:

Sorry, I know you are fuming but your post made me laugh.  I'll keep an eye on my bill even though I had a different agent.

[Pinky]

Caveat Emptor!!!..I received my first bill today and it was NOT the package price that I was offered.
After wasting my time on the phone with Verizon, I put a call out to the person who sold me my package.....Mark Morin.
I am beyond fuming!

Well...just got off the phone with Mark Morin who called me back super quickly. Seems like the billing dept. is just doing their own thing. I am scanning my bill and sending it to Mark...He said this is going to get fixed. I will def. post if it does not.

[Pinky]

Caveat Emptor!!!..I received my first bill today and it was NOT the package price that I was offered.
After wasting my time on the phone with Verizon, I put a call out to the person who sold me my package.....Mark Morin.
I am beyond fuming!

[FiOSGuy]

I'm in refuge from JClist, banned for telling people about good deals...

My name is Mark Morin, I'm a manager for Verizon Event Management / Door to Door.  I live downtown.


If you have FiOS service questions / Availability / Want to order... shoot me an email to markmorin@verizon.net


Here are the latest promos, and a few other updates to the packages:

“Good” Triple Play – $69.99 for 6 months
(99.99 for months 7-12 / 109.99 for 13-24.)
Includes, FiOS Voice, 15/5 Mbps, Extreme HD TV

“Better” Triple Play – $79.99 for 6 months
(109.99 for months 7-12 / 119.99 for 13-24)
Includes, FiOS Voice, 25/25 Mbps, Extreme HD TV, Showtime, TMC, Flix

“Best” Triple Play – $109.99 for 6 months
(139.99 for months 7-12 / 149.99 for 13-24.)
Includes, FiOS Voice, 35/35 Mbps, Ultimate HD TV, Showtime, TMC, Flix, Starz, Encore, HBO, Cinemax, Epix, NFL RedZone.

For Those of you who don’t want the home phone here are the Internet and TV bundles. The contract pricing is a non promotional rate.

“Good” Double Play – $84.99
Includes, 15/5 Mbps, Extreme HD TV

“Better” Double – $99.99 for 6 months
Includes, 25/25 Mbps, Extreme HD TV, Showtime, TMC, Flix

“Best” Double Play – $119.99
Includes, 35/35 Mbps, Ultimate HD TV, Showtime, TMC, Flix, Starz, Encore, HBO, Cinemax, Epix, NFL RedZone.

___________

Obviously DVRs and Boxes are additional:

Multi Room HD DVR – $19.99
HD DVR – $15.99
HD Box – $5.99
SD Box – $5.99
CableCard – $3.99

——————-

There are a few other small promos on top of these so give me a call or shoot me an email.

Include this in your email:
Address
Will you need a home phone?
How many TVs do you have?
Will you need a DVR?
What premium channels do you usually subscribe to? (HBO, Cinemax, etc)
Do you have Verizon Wireless?

Thanks,
Mark – 201-792-3467
MarkMorin@verizon.net

[nugnfutz]

AB, still happy with FiOS?  Anyone else have comments?

Comcast service has degraded substantially.  Some nights I can't get to a lot of websites including Comcast's.

Might just be an issue with their DNS servers. I switched to opendns.com ages ago - haven't had any issues. Still I might check out Fios - looks like quite a few positive reviews.

[AmbushBug]

Duke, I'm incredibly happy with my FiOS so far. Service has been incredibly consistent; it even lasted throughout the blizzard with zero downtime. (I noticed the down speeds were a little slower, but I think that was because so many end-users were home from work and on their computers.)

The download speeds in general aren't much of a noticeable improvement from DSL; take a look at my last post as to why. Also, we chose the slower of the two FiOS packages because we figured we didn't really need any faster than 25.5 MBps.

The real difference is the up speed, which is just incredible (well above 20 MBps). I can post a roll of hi-rez photos to flickr in a fraction of a second, or email multi-track Garage Band files with almost no lag. Plus, our landline, which was previously very noisy and scratchy, is now clear as a bell. It really makes you notice how shitty the sound on mobile phones is.

My phone bill is noticeably higher than it was before FiOS, but that has more to do with Verizon raising their rates across the board, which they do every year like evil, money-grubbing clockwork. But that's no different from Comcast (like Verizon, one of the most despised service providers in America), I guess there just aren't any good options in our area when it comes to price.

So yes, I'd recommend FiOS heartily.

[wibbit]

 in term of the actual service/technology/stability, verizon fios is by far the best, there is no comparison. But they do lock you into a 1-2 year contract while cable companies dont.

[duke_of_earl]

AB, still happy with FiOS?  Anyone else have comments?

Comcast service has degraded substantially.  Some nights I can't get to a lot of websites including Comcast's.

[AmbushBug]

Just ordered FIOS. Does the install take so long b/c they have to re-wire all connections with fiber? Our premise copper is shot anway.

Yep.

Actually, I think it depends on your situation. When we had the FIOS guy over, he explained that it's fiber-optic up to your NID (the interface box on the side of your house/in our basement), then uses copper from there (copper can carry a massive bandwidth over very short distances, which is why my DSL is faster than hell, because we've got a DSLAM only about 100 feet from our door). The copper we have within our home's kind of crap, so the guy said he may replace it after he does some line tests after the install. That's of course if we ever hear back from the LL about greenlighting the install.

But if your copper's shot, they may have to replace it. No idea if it'll be with FO or just more copper, but like I said, within your home there's no difference.

[skwirrlking]

FIOS has NFL Sunday Ticket - Comcast does not.

[nugnfutz]

Verizon DSL? Don't even go there. You'd be better off with any of the 3G wireless data plans with Verizon, Sprint, ATT or even Tmobile.

Verizon FIOS vs Comcast cable? Depends what you want. I've overall found Comcast really solid in terms of service. FIOS is the new kid on the block and has higher bandwidth, but unlless you're a real heavy user, you won't notice much of a difference.

I play a lot of online games on Comcast. Meaning connectivity, latency and uptime are really important, but not necessarily bandwidth. Comcast really deliver on uptime and low latency, at least compared to Verizon DSL. FIOS might be a better choice if you plan to download a lot of video/large files.

My vote would be for Comcast, unless you need really ultra high bandwidth. And consider 3/4G on your existing cellphone provider if latency/bandwidth isn't an issue.

[TheFang]

Just ordered FIOS. Does the install take so long b/c they have to re-wire all connections with fiber? Our premise copper is shot anway.

Yep.

[skwirrlking]

Just ordered FIOS. Does the install take so long b/c they have to re-wire all connections with fiber? Our premise copper is shot anway.

[super_furry]

Also, for internet only, (and maybe internet and phone), Comcast charges $100 for installation. No install charge for their tripple play. Verizon waives their fee for FIOS - even internet only.

On Tuesday during the day I had a chat with a Verizon repair guy. I mentioned I love our FIOS and he said he works on the copper side of Verizon. Right in the area the copper is in bad shape, and they'd like everyone to get off copper and switch to FIOS. During a FIOS install they usually just leave the copper in place. FIOS should be more stable - less downtime than DSL, but I have to admit our DSL was pretty solid.

Our FIOS install last month took 8+ hours, which is not at all unusual. My neighbor's installation took 10 hours.

About two weeks ago Verizon upped their speed tiers for FIOS internet. Existing users - like me - had to call to get the higher speed. The 10/2 -> 15/5 for the same price, and can be much higher, up to 25Mbps. We only have FIOS internet - no TV or land line. The Comcast lowest tier is still 12/2 and speeds decrease during heavy local use since cable utilizes shared bandwidth to a greater extent than FIOS/fiber optic internet technology. Use speedtest.net to verify your speeds.

So our DSL went out again today. We used to have these problems a lot at our first home in JC, and in our new apartment, with its crickety copper wiring, it seems to be happening again.

Does anyone know if Verizon FIOS is any more reliable? Do they actually get rid of the copper in your home, or just wire the fiber optics to your NID (which in my case would be like locking the deadbolt on an open door)?

And how do people feel about Comcast?

FWIW, here's what I've found from my research, regarding solely Internet (I'm not interested in any TV deals, as I love my DirecTV the way NON loves drama):

Verizon telephone + 10 Mbps DSL	Verizon FIOS (phone & 30 Mbps Internet)	Comcast, Internet only (12 Mbps)	Comcast, Internet only (16 Mbps)
$87.83 ($52.49 + $35.34)	$64.99	$42.95	$52.95

Also, keep in mind that my number for the Verizon phone service includes approx. $12 in additional fees from taxes and the bogus "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (which, if you feel like it, you can threaten to cancel and they'll probably credit you for it). I haven't included this for FIOS because I don't know if they include such fees. I'm guessing they do, so add another 12 bucks to it.

Using DSL as a baseline, that means that FIOS internet & telephony is about 13 bucks cheaper than DSL for the same service. If you go with Comcast for internet but keep a Verizon copper telephone line, it's either 7 bucks or 17 bucks more, depending on the speed you get.

So FIOS seems like the cheapest option . . . but is it any more reliable than bad old DSL?

Your thoughts?

[Olewnick]

fwiw, we just had FIOS installed yesterday (6th st). Took all day, largely due to weirdness in the way our building was wired, but the Net works great (I had DSL before) and the TV seems fine. I don't particularly notice a better picture on the HD but I'm not so into that stuff anyway. Upshot, it saves us about $50/month from what we paid previously and I expect the Net service to be much better. So far, so good.

[Robocub]

One other thing to consider with FIOS is I believe they lock you into an annual contract. I personally don't like that idea. I mean, what if it turns out you don't like the FIOS service and now you're stuck with it for a year.

I'm also curious what the channel line is compared to Comcast.

[AmbushBug]

Yeah, at this point I think I'll go with FIOS just because I feel like a chump paying 10-20 bucks more for a connection that's a 3^rd the speed.

[bdlaw]

After some initial hiccups mostly relating to major construction occurring across from our apartment, I have been relatively pleased with Comcast.

God I hate to say that, but it's true.

[duke_of_earl]

Thanks for posting this, AB.  I have had Comcast for 2 years now so can speak with some expertise.  I am a heavy internet user and don't really have many problems with Comcast internet service.  They used to throttle torrenting which was a big gripe of mine, but they have backed off from their previous stance and my router doesn't shut down any more.

Recently, I had another television problem, but a quick service call from a good technician who replaced all my external fittings fixed the problem.

I do not believe that you can get just internet service with Comcast.  I think you need a minimum of Basic Service...I'm too lazy to call them to confirm.  I am looking at changing to FiOS because, well, it's fiber.  They are not on my street downtown, but I talked to a technician on my street today and it is coming.  I will keep you posted as I will be the first on my block to have it working.

duke

[AmbushBug]

So our DSL went out again today. We used to have these problems a lot at our first home in JC, and in our new apartment, with its crickety copper wiring, it seems to be happening again.

Does anyone know if Verizon FIOS is any more reliable? Do they actually get rid of the copper in your home, or just wire the fiber optics to your NID (which in my case would be like locking the deadbolt on an open door)?

And how do people feel about Comcast?

FWIW, here's what I've found from my research, regarding solely Internet (I'm not interested in any TV deals, as I love my DirecTV the way NON loves drama):

Verizon telephone + 10 Mbps DSL	Verizon FIOS (phone & 30 Mbps Internet)	Comcast, Internet only (12 Mbps)	Comcast, Internet only (16 Mbps)
$87.83 ($52.49 + $35.34)	$64.99	$42.95	$52.95

Also, keep in mind that my number for the Verizon phone service includes approx. $12 in additional fees from taxes and the bogus "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (which, if you feel like it, you can threaten to cancel and they'll probably credit you for it). I haven't included this for FIOS because I don't know if they include such fees. I'm guessing they do, so add another 12 bucks to it.

Using DSL as a baseline, that means that FIOS internet & telephony is about 13 bucks cheaper than DSL for the same service. If you go with Comcast for internet but keep a Verizon copper telephone line, it's either 7 bucks or 17 bucks more, depending on the speed you get.

So FIOS seems like the cheapest option . . . but is it any more reliable than bad old DSL?

Your thoughts?

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