Author Topic: Dr. George Tiller  (Read 6349 times)

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #17 on: 06-09-2009, 05:12pm »
Right now he is only being charged with 1st degree murder. Hopefully as the FBI and DoJ do more work into it the charges will grow.
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline justiceiro

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #16 on: 06-09-2009, 05:08pm »
Can this guy be charged with terrorism?  Isn't that an aggravating factor or something? What's the status of the law nowdays?

The PATRIOT act has to be good for something, right?
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Offline shahaggy

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #15 on: 06-09-2009, 02:26pm »
they can always go see  :homer:  up in Maine.

cider house rules reference
[04:53 PM] Soshin: I don't think I've ever had fig spread Darna but I like figs and they make my sphincter sing power ballads

[12:48 PM] Bobblehead: Yo, you know I'm really happy for you and Ima let you finish, but soshin had one of the best meercat shouts of all time

[10:23 PM] skwirrlking: you submitting darna for beards eating cupcakes - mca?

[03:24 PM] Darna: [03:22 PM] jeht'aimeu: skw, you are climbing up my pole as well... 

[02:28 PM] propscene: I DPON"T MEAN I LOVE YOU DEEP INSIDE AS MUCH AS I LOVE HIM DEEP INSIDE OH GOD

[12:58 PM] nikki: i feel like i should like the opposite of whatever jehu says

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #14 on: 06-09-2009, 02:14pm »
The terrorists have won.

------------------

Murdered Doctor’s Abortion Clinic Shuttered

The Wichita abortion clinic run by a doctor who was shot and killed will remain closed permanently, his family said on Tuesday.

Dr. George R. Tiller’s clinic was one of the few in the country to provide abortions to women late in their pregnancies, and for decades, women had traveled there from all over the nation and from overseas. It was also the only remaining abortion clinic, even for first trimester abortions, in the Wichita region.

“The family of Dr. George Tiller announces that effective immediately, Women’s Health Care Services, Inc., will be permanently closed,” according to a statement issued on Tuesday morning by the family’s lawyers. “Notice is being given today to all concerned that the Tiller family is ceasing operation of the clinic and any involvement by family members in any other similar clinic.”

After Dr. Tiller was shot and killed on May 31 as he served as an usher at his Wichita church, abortion rights advocates – including at least one abortion provider in Nebraska – had said they hoped others might step in and keep Dr. Tiller’s clinic open to provide late-term abortions. Abortion rights advocates had the loss of such a clinic would be devastating to families of women who learned late in pregnancy of catastrophic health issues.

Even some abortion opponents, who had long devoted their efforts to closing down Dr. Tiller’s clinic, said they did not wish to see it happen under these circumstances. Last week, Troy Newman, the leader of Operation Rescue, had said that closing the clinic now would send a worrisome message. “Good God, do not close this abortion clinic for this reason,” he said in an interview with The New York Times. “Every kook in the world will get some notion.”

Scott P. Roeder, an outspoken opponent of abortion, is in a Wichita jail, charged with murder in Dr. Tiller’s death.

Immediately after the shooting, the Tiller family had announced that the clinic was closed for the moment, but provided no long term plan until Tuesday.

In the statement, the Tiller family said it wished to assure his previous patients that it would work to keep their medical histories and patient records “as fiercely protected now and in the future as they were during Dr. Tiller’s lifetime.”

The family also said Dr. Tiller’s work would be honored through private charitable work. “We are proud of the service and courage shown by our husband and father and know that women’s health care needs have been met because of his dedication and service,” the statement said. “That is a legacy that will never die.”

Abortion rights advocates said they believed the nearest abortion provider to Wichita may now be about three hours away, near Kansas City.
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline PuddinPop

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #13 on: 06-03-2009, 01:28pm »
Yes, in fact it does. Many people living with schizophrenia have delusions of grandeur.
See: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/philosophy_psychiatry_and_psychology/v008/8.2parnas.html

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06032009/news/columnists/left_exploits_docs_slay_to_silence_foes__172289.htm

Classic.  Is "extreme solipsism" classifiable as a mental disease under the DSM-IV?

Offline justiceiro

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #12 on: 06-03-2009, 12:54pm »
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06032009/news/columnists/left_exploits_docs_slay_to_silence_foes__172289.htm

Classic.  Is "extreme solipsism" classifiable as a mental disease under the DSM-IV?
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Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #11 on: 06-02-2009, 05:04pm »
Last bit for a while, I promise, but in his own heroic words:

---------

George R. Tiller, MD, served as medical director of Women's Health Care Services, clinical instructor of family practice residency at Wesley Medical Center, and clinical instructor in the Department of Family and Community Medicine at the University of Kansas School of Medicine. Dr. Tiller served on PRCH’s Board of Directors from 2002 to 2006.

In July of 1970, I planned to start a dermatology residency. On August 21, 1970, my father, mother, sister and brother-in-law were killed in an aircraft accident. My sister had a 12-month-old boy, Maurice. They had written out a will in longhand the evening before the airplane crash, that I was to raise Maurice. So we took charge of my sister's boy and we moved back to Wichita. My game plan was to spend six months here, close out my father's huge family medicine practice.

After I had been there for a little while, patients in the practice began to ask me if I was going to do abortions like my father did. I was outraged. Why would these nice people say that he was a scumbag kind of a physician?

I began to ask some of these women. And I found out that in 1945, '46, or '47, a young woman for whom Dad had already delivered two babies came to him pregnant again right away, and she said something to the effect that, "I can't take it, can you help me?" That is apparently the way you asked for an abortion from your regular doctor before abortion was legal. Dad said, "No. Big families are in vogue, by the time the baby gets here, everything will be all right." She had a non-healthcare provider abortion and came back and died.

I can understand how upset my father was. I do not know whether he did 100 abortions or 200 abortions or 300 abortions. I think it may have been something like 200 over a period of about 20 years, but I don't know for sure. The women in my father's practice for whom he did abortions educated me and taught me that abortion is about women's hopes, dreams, potential, the rest of their lives. Abortion is a matter of survival for women.

When it became legal and my patients began to ask for it, I'd say, "Sure. It's a legal process." I was a service provider. I was a physician. The patients needed abortions, and I did them. It is my fundamental philosophy that patients are emotionally, mentally, morally, spiritually and physically competent to struggle with complex health issues and come to decisions that are appropriate for them.

We've been picketed since 1975. My office has been blown up. In 1993, I survived an assassination attempt. My kids were harassed in high school. I had to write letters of complaint to the City Council and the Board of Education. We had people who actually camped across the street from our house. I restrict where I go to eat, where I travel. You see a car following you, you think, "Ah-ha, let's watch that." You're always on alert. You're always looking around.

I was leaving the office. It was 7:00 in the evening. As I'm driving out, I have to slow down and I have to stop. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and I thought to myself, "That lady is shooting me with rubber bullets. I'm not afraid of rubber bullets." Then I looked down and all this blood is all over the place. I thought, "She shot me. She can't do that! I'll get her." I saw her running through some front yards. So I zipped down the street, turned in front of her to block her escape. She stops and reaches into this little fanny pack that she's wearing in the front, and I thought, "She's going for her gun again. She shot you once, George. She'll shoot you again. You are in the wrong place at the wrong time."

So then I drove off. Ended up back at the office, and I don't remember anything for about 20 minutes. I remember trying to get into my car and drive myself to the hospital. I said, "Let's not make this a big media event." Well, I had lost 20 minutes and the TV trucks were there. I thought, "How'd they'd get here so soon?"

There was never any question in my mind that I was going back to work the next day. I belonged there and they were not going to separate me from my job and they were not going to separate me from my community. So I did go to work the next day, and we got everything done. People got taken care of, it took a long time. Arms hurt, bled a little bit, but so what? I am not going to be run over and I'm not going to run out. It's just that simple.

I am a member of this community. Our DNA has been here since 1880. I belong here. The folks that come in from out of town, they are the intruders. Forty percent of all the people who were arrested here during the Operation Rescue in 1991 came from out of state. I intend to stay here. I am part of the fabric of Kansas and Kansas is part of the fabric of me.

I have more to be grateful for than I have to be resentful about. We have much more support in Wichita than we have rejection and castigation. If Wichita and our community did not want us to be here, I wouldn't be here. But the vast majority of people in Wichita support, on a quiet level, what we do, which is help women and families.

—Edited transcript from Voices of Choice
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #10 on: 06-02-2009, 01:32pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wBlGtpheuIE&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/wBlGtpheuIE&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #9 on: 06-02-2009, 01:16pm »
Quote
Hi Everyone

On behalf of everyone here at NARAL Pro-Choice New York, Planned Parenthood of New York City, The New York Civil Liberties Union, Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health, the New York Abortion Access Fund and all other participating groups and allies, thank you for joining us last night as we remembered and honored Dr. George Tiller.

Together, we contributed over $2,300 to the George Tiller Memorial Abortion Fund, a fund set up by the National Network of Abortion Funds to help women in their second trimester with assistance paying for abortion care, as well as paying for travel and lodging enroute to providers.  For more information and to donate, please visit their website here: http://www.nnaf.org/tiller.html

Please visit our website for a touching video taken last night by a participant: http://www.prochoiceny.org/.  We will also post pictures very soon.

The spirit of community, hope and action shared last night truly honored the commitment shown by Dr. Tiller throughout his life.  Thank you, we hope to join together with you all again in solidarity and support of reproductive choice very soon.

Our best,
Lalena

Lalena Howard, MSW

Community Organizer
NARAL Pro-Choice New York
470 Park Avenue South, 7th Floor
New York, NY 10016
646-520-3506
lhoward@prochoiceny.org
www.prochoiceny.org
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline Soshin

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"god hates you. you will all go to yuppie hell. in yuppie hell there is no starbucks or hole foods or sushi bar. in yuppie hell you will work 16 hours a day in a bodega. in yuppie hell your car will not start when the sweeper is coming down the street. in yuppie hell your doorman will terrorize you and have sex with your wife or husband...when you are at work....in the bodega. in yuppie hell you will go to the laundromat and lose your last quarter in a broken washing machine. in yuppie hell you will buy all your food and clothing at the 99 cent store. in yuppie hell there are no cell phones, you will use a pay phone. a filthy pay phone".      -   Cat_Man Dude

Offline Darna

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #7 on: 06-02-2009, 01:09pm »
It is disheartening that the news coverage of Tiller's death in the NY Times does not point out that Tiller provided second and third trimester abortions largely to women whose health was endangered by their pregnancies.  Because this fact has been obscured by the coverage, one gets the inaccurate perception that Tiller was somehow aiding and abetting women in their "irresponsible" behavior by waiting so long to get their abortions, rather than helping save their lives.

The anti-abortion movement values the viability of a fetus more than the life of the woman who is carrying it.  This should make all rational people angry.
« Last Edit: 06-02-2009, 11:20pm by MCA »

Offline PuddinPop

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #6 on: 06-02-2009, 12:51pm »
+1 Jehu,

What these pro-life fanatics don't understand is that without a reponsible doctor performing these procedures, many more people would die and suffer. Abortions have been happening for 100's of years and still remain even in the conservative Christian arenas in which women are going in secret to have them done or possibly doing them themselves. How scary!

Imagine what would happen without safe access..

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02abort.html

Online jehu

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #5 on: 06-02-2009, 12:47pm »
.
« Last Edit: 06-02-2009, 12:52pm by jehu »
TheFang: yeah, i gotta agree with jehu here

Darna: we had a lovely shat with mrs binky this morning

stephen: Hmm… I'm as clueless as you are.

Darna: could someone please splain to me why a person in a gang is called a gangbanger but a gangbang has nothing to do with gang activity?

shahaggy: can't believe I'm saying this but +1 jehu

[02:58 PM] MCA: it's not stalking, it's caring enough to find out things she won't tell you herself

[01:35 PM] shahaggy: fine but jehu's correct

TheFang: as much as it pains me to say, jehu might be right.

One time, I hired a monkey to take notes for me in class. I would just sit back with my mind completely blank while the monkey scribbled on little pieces of paper. At the end of the week, the teacher said, "Class, I want you to write a pape

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #4 on: 06-02-2009, 01:12am »




The vigil earlier tonight was nothing short of heart warming and inspiring. There was a huge crowd and several politicians, but also several other doctors who had worked with Dr. Tiller and had been helped by him and his heroism and unending courage. It might have even brought a tear or two to TheFang's steely eyes.




Fmr. NY Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman



"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline elgoodo

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #3 on: 06-01-2009, 04:41pm »
This is horrific.
[06:11 PM]  fasteddie: jesus, this SB is deader than JC Vibe

Offline TheFang

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Re: Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #2 on: 06-01-2009, 04:40pm »
I just wanted to post this really great little blog post that I just read, it sums up really well alot of the anger that I and others are having over this.

--------------------------------
This Is Why There's No Room for "Common Ground"

 Posted by Erica C. Barnett  on Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at  1:16 PM

So-called "mainstream" anti-abortion activists have taken pains to distance themselves from the murder of Kansas Dr. George Tiller, assassinated outside his church yesterday morning. The suspect, Scott Roeder, was a member of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, whose leader, Troy Newman, issued a statement declaring himself "shocked" at Dr. Tiller's murder yesterday. (The group's former leader, Randall Terry, used the occasion to again call Tiller a "murderer" killed because he violated the "Law of God.") Newman added that the group "has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see [Tiller] brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning." Meanwhile, officials called the murder "the act of an isolated individual," and President Obama said in a statement, "However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence."

The problem with statements like Obama's is that they presume each side is equally responsible for the contentiousness of the abortion "debate"—that the belief that women have a right to take part in a legal medical procedure without threats and intimidation is somehow equivalent to the belief that women should be forced to carry every child to term, even if it kills them. Or, put another way, that supporting judges and elected officials who are pro-choice is the moral equivalent of standing outside a clinic and screaming at every woman who enters. Killing doctors is only the logical conclusion of a movement whose primary currency is intimidation. No other activist movement in this nation relies so heavily on the implicit threat of physical violence to get its way. And if you believe, as anti-abortion extremists do, that abortion is "murder," then murdering in retaliation makes perfect sense. An eye for an eye.

Those of us who are pro-choice—and I include in that group all shades of pro-choicers, from those who believe abortion is morally fraught to those who support the liberalization of abortion laws— will never find "common ground" with those who are anti-choice, because there is no common ground. On one side, we have those who want to protect women's right to obtain a legal medical procedure; on the other, we have those who think abortion is murder and will use any means necessary to prevent women from obtaining one (even while they fight against measures, like accurate sex education and emergency contraception, that would make abortion less common). On one side, we have those who believe in women's right to determine their own destiny; on the other, we have those who believe women should cede control of our bodies to the state. On one side, we have those who attempt to protect women's access to abortion by supporting pro-choice judges and elected officials; on the other, we have those who use violence and the threat of violence to intimidate women and abortion providers. Tell me, where is the common ground between those two groups?

So no, President Obama, those who believe in a woman's right to choose should not "open our hearts and minds to those who may not think like we do." Because "common ground," in this case, is code for ceding away our rights— women's rights—in the interest of calming a storm we didn't create. And because you don't negotiate with terrorists—whether they're threatening doctors or taking hostages.

Obama declared himself "shocked" by Tiller's murder. But why? Tiller had been shot before. For years, he had worn a bullet-proof vest, driven an armored car, and protected himself with security guards. As Jill Filipovic notes, anti-abortion activists had harassed his patients, bombed his clinic, and published his address and the addresses of everyone who did business with him. So why should anyone profess surprise when one took those actions to their logical conclusion?

Tiller provided abortions past 21 weeks, to women whose pregnancies had gone tragically, life-threateningly wrong. They were women, as Lynn Paltrow notes, with wanted pregnancies "who learned that their baby had no brain, or kidneys growing on the outside of their bodies or things their doctors described to them as 'severe fetal cardiac malformations.'" They were rape victims as young as 10 or 11, some of them too young to even realize they had had periods. For these women and girls, Tiller was a godsend. His death leaves the US with just two doctors willing to perform late-term therapeutic abortions—and a medical community in which providing late-term abortions will be seen, rightly, as increasingly dangerous. And who can blame them? Terrorism works. Its means is intimidation—don't go into the clinic or you'll be harassed and threatened, don't provide abortions or we'll harass your family, don't provide late-term abortions or you'll be killed. In the battle to eliminate women's right to abortion, the terrorists are—undeniably—winning.
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Offline TheFang

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Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #1 on: 06-01-2009, 03:46pm »
Dr. George Tiller was gunned down in his church yesterday morning outside Wichita, Kansas. He had been targeted several times in the past, including being shot in both arms in 1993. He was a true hero for woman's right everywhere. He was one of very few (and by few I mean 2 or 3) doctors in this country who would preform late term abortions. He and his family had been threatened many times, his clinic had been bombed, and yet, he still had the courage to preform a vital, life saving procedure for women.

There will be a vigil tonight at 6pm in Union Square Park. Sponsored by NARAL NY

Quote
Vigil to honor the life of Dr. George Tiller
Monday, June 1 at 6:00pm
As most of you have already heard, Dr. George Tiller, abortion provider in Wichita, Kansas, was assassinated Sunday morning while attending church.

Monday, June 1st at 6pm, we will gather with our friends, colleagues and supporters to honor the life of this courageous man who dedicated his life to serving women when they were in need.

Please join us to remember Dr. Tiller and to stand in solidarity with those who work every day to ensure that women and their families have access to the care they need even in the face of violence and intimidation.

VIGIL TO HONOR DR. GEORGE TILLER
MONDAY, 6PM, NYC
UNION SQUARE PARK


There are many fantastic stories about the wonderful work that he did on Salon.com today, and if you are wondering what you can do about this awful tragedy feministing.com has some really great ideas.

Quote
Donate to a pro-choice organization.

        * Medical Students for Choice -- to train the next generation of abortion providers
        * National Network of Abortion Funds -- to help low-income women access abortion



And probably the most important one since Sec. Kathleen Sibeliusis now the head of Secretary of Health and Human Services, and was the former governor of Kansas and a big supporter of Dr. Tillers.

Quote
Write to the Obama administration and ask that the Department of Justice work to enforce the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act. FACE was enacted after the murder of Dr. David Gunn in 1993, but the task force to ensure its enforcement was basically dormant during the Bush years. Ask Obama to revive it to protect reproductive health care providers and women who seek these services.More Info Here


Remember events like this when the members of the former administration go on and on about preventing domestic terrorism, here is a perfect example of it.

"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby." -- D.D.

Jersey City, NJ Community Forums

Dr. George Tiller
« Reply #1 on: 06-01-2009, 03:46pm »