Gun-store owner arrested on Newark Ave

[PhillyGirl]

I can't believe that in CT you have to essentially cede your home to a burglar.  That's amazing.

Welcome to the occupied Northeast, Justiceiro.  Please check your Bill of Rights at the door.

Yep, guys, here in the Northeast we think that the value of human life is greater than whatever piddly-ass shit you have around the house that someone came to steal. 

You don't have to cede your home, you just can't use lethal force to defend property.  Hmm . . . life vs. property.  And, of course, bd, you do know, that the constitution has nothing to do with this situation, right?  Ain't nothin' in there that gives you particular property rights vis a vis the burglar, just vis a vis the government.  Please tell me you understand this.  Or, rather, don't.  Not sure if it's worse for someone as educated as you are not to know this, or for someone as supposedly ethical as you are to throw around the Bill of Rights to make your position sound better even when you know it has no relevance.  Tough one.

[bdlaw]

Not sure philly, I know in TN there is no duty to retreat on your own property, and I believe in Texas there is no duty to retreat, ever.

I can't believe that in CT you have to essentially cede your home to a burglar.  That's amazing.

Welcome to the occupied Northeast, Justiceiro.  Please check your Bill of Rights at the door.

[justiceiro]

Not sure philly, I know in TN there is no duty to retreat on your own property, and I believe in Texas there is no duty to retreat, ever.

I can't believe that in CT you have to essentially cede your home to a burglar.  That's amazing.

[PhillyGirl]

Um, you sure Justi?  I am pretty sure that every state has a basic requirement for using lethal force -- an objective person would be in fear that without the use of that lethal force, his or her life would be in danger.  This is usually interpreted to mean that if there is an obvious or easy retreat, you have to take it.  It is likely that TN doesn't have a duty to retreat from your own home or property (wheras some states, like CT, do) but a public street when you're not being pursued is a totally different situation.

Meanwhile, what the hell is Jeebus doing commenting on this situation from only one Jersey Journal article when there has been so much more out there -- especially the security video and the TV comments from buddy Dave?  It's one thing to make an assessment based upon limited information in the infancy of coverage, but this is ridiculous.

[CeeDub]

CT has duty to retreat form your own home if you have an exit - a ground floor window don't count.  Even still, killing is serious business.  Few (in this day and age of civilised reason - HAH) have the heart nor stomache for it.  Many would like to think they do - I count this dope among them.

This guy can't even follow basic social contract obligatoons of life in the city.  The reason guns hae become so regulated is well illustrade here - a parking (non)incident is (ab)used by a guy with a serious problem to furhter his own (a)moral code.

I can't say it too many times it seems:

WRONG WRONG WRONG

[justiceiro]

Serious question- does new jersey have a "Duty to retreat"?  Cause in Tennessee, you don't.  I think in TN his action would be legal.

[CeeDub]

Based on this story:

 He backs up, although not as far as was possible, and tries to pull out, but is unable to. He opens his door and appears to yell something at the men in the double-parked car, making others in front of Jordan's turn their heads toward the action. There is no sound on the tape.

*Clearly* Murrary is the instigator - and when you see he had 2 empty parking spots behind him, you'll agree.

I don't want to hafta cross post the ten commandments of lethal force - go see some of "krazy ChuckWhitman's" posts AtS

PS -I think I know how you got your handle!!!  Jeebus!!

[Jeebus]

Based on this story it seems like he just wanted to go home and was in danger of getting beat down for telling people to get out of the way of his car.  After they started beating him they backed off when he showed his gun and rather than shoot them he (foolishly) shot a few warning shots.

He called the police to sort it out, which suggests that he was not the aggressor, and they fled.

Maybe he's a racist, maybe he's unfriendly, maybe he's this or that but from this article it seems like he was rightfully defending himself.

 
 

Double-parking called cause of altercation
'Shooter' is a gun shop owner
Thursday, May 10, 2007
By MICHAELANGELO CONTE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
The man who was arrested last week after firing three rounds into the air during an altercation is the owner of a Jersey City gun shop.

David J. Murray, 47, who owns David's Sporting Goods, was arrested in the street in front of Jordan's Lounge at Newark Avenue and Second Street at about 11:30 p.m. last Thursday, police reports said.

He was charged with possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose and unlawful possession of a weapon after allegedly firing his .357 magnum into the air three times during the incident caught on video by Jordan's Lounge security cameras, reports said.

The owner of the gun shop, located at Second Street and Newark Avenue, has a permit to carry guns while conducting his business, Jersey City Police Lt. Christine Petersen said yesterday.

The video shows Murray leaving his gun shop and walking across Newark Avenue to his car, which is blocked by a double-parked car. He backs up, although not as far as was possible, and tries to pull out, but is unable to. He opens his door and appears to yell something at the men in the double-parked car, making others in front of Jordan's turn their heads toward the action. There is no sound on the tape.

The driver and passenger in the double-parked car get out and walk over to Murray, who has words with one of them. Murray and the two men then walk behind Murray's car and are out of sight.

When they come back into view one of the men from the double-parked car is throwing punches at Murray. The man swinging at Murray then backs away when the gun shop owner apparently shows a gun, then fires it into the air while the man is only a few feet away in the street.

The man who had been punching Murray and the other man then get back into their vehicle and Murray walks to the driver's side door and pushes one of the men as he gets in. By now Murray is using his cell phone, apparently calling police.

The double-parked vehicle drives away and police arrive seconds later. Murray walks to the police car as a woman runs over, apparently yelling, "He's got a gun," according to police reports. Murray seems to chase her a few steps, but police put him against a car and handcuff him.

Murray then tells the officers he has a second handgun in his car and they take it.

Police said no one at the scene was cooperative.

Murray said yesterday his attorney advised him not to speak about the incident.



© 2007  The Jersey Journal
© 2007 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

[Bobblehead]

Come on Bobblehead, use your imagination. I'm imagining Murray defying the no carry order, a gun battle on the streets, an innocent lady gets shot, Murray ends up getting killed in a shootout with police... something out of Pulp Fiction.

I was using my imagination.   

[RB]

They would have shot him dead? 

They would have shot him dead? 

Come on Bobblehead, use your imagination. I'm imagining Murray defying the no carry order, a gun battle on the streets, an innocent lady gets shot, Murray ends up getting killed in a shootout with police... something out of Pulp Fiction.

[CeeDub]

He just needs to put up some signs. 

LOST
Gun
Last seen at Dave's Gun Buffet

If found, please drop in through mail slot. TIA.

oh.  shit.  I hope he's cleaned it since January - although I doubt I left any useable partials on it, when I had it in my hot little hands.

that pic is just a little small - otherwise, spot on.  ah, memories.

[Bobblehead]

We can only imagine what type of chaos would have ensued had David Murray caught up to the two in his SUV before he called police/911.

 

They would have shot him dead? 

[elgoodo]

could be worse.  imagine if he had taken a different career path and was on the force.

[RB]

We can only imagine what type of chaos would have ensued had David Murray caught up to the two in his SUV before he called police/911.

[Bobblehead]

He just needs to put up some signs. 

LOST
Gun
Last seen at Dave's Gun Buffet

If found, please drop in through mail slot. TIA.

[glx]

Murray said he hoped the prints and video would lead to the pair’s arrest and “they wont be able to steal, rape and commit more crimes.”

OH yeah Dave, they're definitely rapists.  Must be.  It's certainly not possible that they stole the gun for the purpose of reselling it on the black market.  Oh no.  Must be rapists.  Just like Darnell Rawlings.

[elgoodo]

Lovely.  Why is this store still open?

[Bobblehead]

What the fuck?    He didn't have the guns locked away in a cabinet? You could just reach over and grab them, like candy? 

[jcpeace]

Its the gift that keeps on giving.
I'm actually shocked to learn that this guy's store is still open after the last incident.

looks like freebies are easy to come by there 

[MCA™]

Wow! Didn't see this coming at all!


Gun shop owner: Thief used distract-and-grab scam
The owner of a Downtown Jersey City gun store described a smooth con today that left the shop short a $575 gun and left a thief with a James Bond-type weapon for who knows what purpose.

At 6:45 yesterday evening, two men walked into David’s Sporting Goods and Self Defense store on Second Street at Newark Avenue, owner David Murray and police told The Jersey Journal.

One of the men took out a roll of $20 bills, saying excitedly that he wanted to buy paintball equipment.

While Murray was preoccupied gathered up a paintball gun, paint balls and other equipment, the second man walked over to the glass gun cabinet, reached over it and grabbed a Walther 380 PPK-S -- all caught on the store's security video, which Murray showed the Journal. The man stuffed the gun in his pocket and runs out of the store, the video shows.

Moments later the other man takes the box full of paintball equipment and places it on the glass cabinet, blocking the view of the missing gun, the video shows. As the second man and Murray are finishing their transaction, the man's cellphone rings.

“As he was checking out he got a call on his phone and said ‘Oh, the car’s on the meter. I still got to give the guy the money,'” Murray said.

That man then bolts and Murray looks over to see the gun gone.

After realizing what happened, Murray ran outside where people waiting for a bus said the pair ran away south on Monmouth Street, police reports said.

Murray drove around the area looking for them and then returned to the store and dialed 911, reports said. He said the pair looked familiar and may have been in the store recently to case it.

The video captured clear images of the face of the man who took the gun and police got his complete hand prints from the top of the glass cabinet. The other man was also captured on the security video but a baseball cap blocked a portion of his face from view.

Murray said he hoped the prints and video would lead to the pair’s arrest and “they wont be able to steal, rape and commit more crimes.”

Stealing a gun from a federally licensed gun dealer is a federal offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison, Murray said.

Murray has some gun troubles of his own, having recently lost his "carry permit'' after an incident in the neighborhood where he shot into the air after a heated exchange with someone blocking his car got physical and he said he felt his life was in danger.

[Wolf]

 
 

Judge: Gun seller loses carry permit
OH, SHOOT!
Saturday, June 02, 2007
By MICHAELANGELO CONTE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
A Jersey City gun shop owner was stripped of his permit to carry a firearm yesterday as a result of a recent incident in which he fired three rounds into the air while involved in a dispute.

State Superior Court Judge Fred Theemling said during a hearing yesterday that the deciding factor in his ruling to revoke the permit was a letter he received from David Murray, the owner of David's Sporting Goods on Newark Avenue. He would not disclose the contents of the letter.

Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Barbara Turso and Murray's attorney, Evan Mappa, told Theemling at the beginning of the hearing that they were close to an agreement on the matter. But Theemling had already heard enough.

"Whatever agreement you come up with, that carrying permit will be in my possession today," Theemling said.

Murray's carrying permit was revoked, but he will retain his Firearm ID card, which will allow him to buy guns for his business only, Turso said after the hearing. Murray will also retain his state and federal permits to sell guns at his store, Turso said.

With Murray's consent, the police took his inventory on the night of the assault incident and Theemling ordered the guns returned. The police took his two personal guns, and they will not be returned.

In court, Mappa said Theemling made his decision before the attorneys argued their positions and that it denied Murray his right to due process. Murray can appeal the ruling. Mappa and Turso both filed briefs prior to yesterday's hearing.

Murray, 47, was arrested in front of Jordan's Lounge, near Second Street, at about 11:30 p.m. on May 3, police said. He was charged with possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose and unlawful possession of a weapon after firing his .357 magnum into the air three times

Security video shows Murray walking across Newark Avenue to his car, which was being blocked by a double-parked vehicle. After trying to pull out, he can be seen opening his door and yelling something to the men in the double-parked car. The driver and passenger of the other vehicle get out and walk over to Murray. Murray and the two men then walk out of sight.

When they come back into view, one of the men is swinging his fists at Murray but backs away a few steps just before Murray apparently fires. The two men then drive off as police arrive.

It turns out that one of the men involved in the incident was Donnell Rawlings, who appeared on Comedy Central's "Chappelle's Show."

Rawlings was not charged.





© 2007  The Jersey Journal
© 2007 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

[PhillyGirl]

bd --

I was bothered by this too.  Even though I think guns should be banned, I am also a huge defendants' rights person.  Sometimes a tough combination.  But I digress.  I looked a little further into the info on this incident to try to resolve the issue.

NJ issues different types of carry permits.  There are general ones and there are specific ones that only allow the permit holder to carry in specific situations.  Our buddy Dave's permit allowed him to carry a concealed weapon only in the course of doing his business.  Thus, he could carry in the store, and presumably when he was engaging in wholesale or other transactions outside of his store.  His permit did not allow him to carry a concealed weapon as he walks down the street or drives his car.  Thus, he was unlawfully carrying at the time of the incident.  He should have either left the gun in the store, or once he'd locked up, he has to disable the gun and put it away.

Thus, the unlawful carry charge is warranted.  Had he a general carry permit, I agree, he shouldn't have been charged with that offense.

[bdlaw]

He was charged with possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose and unlawful possession of a weapon after firing his .357 magnum into the air three times.

Generally, I have to say this is working out as it should, and as someone who believes in common sense debate on guns, I think Murray is a douchebag to the Nth degree who has set back logical discussion on this issue by hundreds of years.

However, I find it interesting and a bit disingenuous that you can issue someone a carry permit and then charge them with "unlawful purpose" and "unlawful possession".  Charging him with unlawful discharge of a weapon within city limits, ok.  Charging him with unlawful possession under the permit the state issued?  Not ok.

[glx]

Maybe this is why...  Gee, I wonder what was in that letter?  Something as convincing as his television interview? :

Jersey City gun shop owner can no longer carry gun

A Jersey City gun shop owner was stripped of his permit to carry a firearm today as a result of a recent incident in which he fired three rounds into the air while being assaulted.

State Superior Court Judge Fred Theemling said during a hearing this afternoon that the deciding factor in his ruling to revoke the permit was a letter he received from David Murray, the owner of David’s Sporting Goods on Newark Avenue. He would not disclose what was in the letter.

Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Barbara Turso and Murray’s attorney, Evan Mappa, told Theemling at the beginning of the hearing that they were close to an agreement on the matter. But Theemling had already heard enough.

“Whatever agreement you come up with, that carrying permit will be in my possession today,” Theemling said.

Murray’s carrying permit was revoked but he will retain his Firearm ID card, which will allow him to buy guns for his business only, Turso said after hearing. He will also retain his state and federal permit to sell guns at his store, Turso said.

With Murray’s consent, the police took his inventory on the night of the incident and Theemling ordered the guns returned. The police took his two personal guns, and they will not be returned.

In court, Mappa said Theemling made his decision before the attorneys argued their positions and that it denied Murray his right to due process. Murray can appeal the ruling. Mappa and Turso both filed briefs prior to the yesterday’s hearing.

Murray, 47, was arrested in front of Jordan’s Lounge near Second Street at about 11:30 p.m. on May 3, police said. He was charged with possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose and unlawful possession of a weapon after firing his .357 magnum into the air three times

Security video shows Murray walking across Newark Avenue to his car, which was being blocked by a double-parked vehicle. After trying to pull out, he can be seen opening his door and yelling something to the men in the double-parked car. The driver and passenger of the other vehicle get out and walk over to Murray. Murray and the two men then walk out of sight.

When they come back into view, one of the men is swinging his fists at Murray but backs away a few steps just before Murray apparently fires. The two men then drove off as police arrived.

It turns out that one of the men involved in the incident was Donnell Rawlings, who appeared on Comedy Central’s “Chappelle’s Show.”

Rawling was not charged.

Michaelangelo Conte

[glx]

He's baaa-ack!

(Spotted in-store and apparently open for business, yesterday approx. 7:30pm)

He was actually open at 9:45PM last night.  Give me a break.