Author Topic: St. John's Episcopal Church: Worth saving, or beyond repair?  (Read 10524 times)

Online MA

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145-year-old Jersey City church to become condo complex
« Reply #20 on: 11-23-2015, 09:56am »


145-year-old Jersey City church to become condo complex
By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on November 20, 2015 at 2:52 PM, updated November 22, 2015 at 5:05 PM   

JERSEY CITY A 145-year-old Gothic church on Summit Avenue that was named a local landmark two years ago is set to become the home for 47 condominiums.

Dubbed Hill Top View, the $15 million project, courtesy of Garden State Episcopal Community Development Corp., is the latest sign that Jersey City's development boom is pushing farther south, into the city's Bergen-Lafayette neighborhood.

Construction on the 47 units nine within the church and 38 in two new adjacent structures is expected to begin in fall 2016. It won unanimous approval from the Zoning Board last week.

John Restrepo, director of housing and community development for Garden State Episcopal, said in a press release that the condos will allow the group to pay for renovation of the historic church. The church exterior will be saved as well as any interior portions that are "salvageable," he said.

"The property has significant architectural and historical value and we cannot wait to start construction next year," Restrepo said. The Episcopal Diocese of New Jersey had plans to demolish the building before preservationists convinced the City Council in 2013 to name it a landmark.

Thirty three of the condos will be market-rate units, 14 affordable.

The church, which closed in 1994, is located on Summit Avenue a few blocks north of Grand Street. Read more

Online MA

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Looks like there are some plans to rehab and develop the church and surrounding lots as residences and community space. From the agenda for Thursday's Zoning Board meeting:

12. Case: Z15-046/45 Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan and Subdivision
Applicant: Garden State Episcopal CDC
Address: 118 Summit Avenue
Attorney: Eugene P. OConnel, Esq
Block: 15305 Lot: 11
Zone: R-1, One and Two Family Housing District
For: Subdivision of the Parsonage from the Church and parking lot.
       Preliminary and Final major site plan approval to rehabilitate, convert and expand an existing
       Historic Landmarked church a residential/community use, with 47 units, 14 which will be
       affordable. There will be two new buildings constructed along Summit Avenue and Clifton Place
       that will directly connect to the church, functioning as a residential complex. The former
       entrance way into the church will be converted into 2,000 sq ft of gallery/community space.
c Variance: Parking
d Variances: Use, Height
« Last Edit: 10-13-2015, 01:03pm by MCA »

Online MA

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143-year-old Jersey City church named a local landmark
« Reply #18 on: 06-20-2013, 08:45am »
143-year-old Jersey City church named a local landmark
By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal
on June 19, 2013 at 7:44 PM, updated June 19, 2013 at 7:45 PM
   
The shuttered St. Johns Episcopal Church, a 143-year old Jersey City structure once known as the millionaires church because of its well-heeled congregation, has been named a local landmark by the City Council.

The council tonight unanimously approved a measure designating the church a historic landmark, which will require its owners, the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, to seek approval from the local Historic Preservation Commission before altering or demolishing the building.

The diocese, which could not be reached to comment, objects to the designation, saying the Summit Avenue church is too dilapidated to be saved. But local preservationists, who have been lobbying for the landmark designation for years, said tonight that the church must be saved.

There are eight other local landmarks, including the Apple Tree House, the 6th Street Embankment and Ellis Island.

St. John's played a pivotal role for African Americans in Jersey City during the civil-rights movement. The Rev. Robert W. Castle Jr., rector at St. Johns from 1960 to 1968, opened his home to the Black Panthers and picketed businesses for not hiring blacks.

Wegman Parkway resident Virginia Miller said she met with other civil-rights activists at the church almost daily during those years as Castle and others discussed where to picket in Jersey City.

If the church is torn down, Miller said, a piece of history would be destroyed and we would have another vacant lot in our community.

The Gothic structure closed its doors in 1994. In 2007, the planning board unanimously recommended naming the church a local landmark. A subsequent vote by the council in 2008 affirmed that recommendation, but the council never adopted the measure.

Councilwoman at large Viola Richardson asked last month that it return to the councils agenda, and tonight local historian John Gomez, a columnist for The Jersey Journal, called Richardson my preservation hero.

Diocese spokeswoman Nina Nicholson has previously said the diocese cannot afford to make repairs to the building.

Its well established the building is unsafe and has been unsafe, she said. It needs to be demolished.

John J. Hallanan, president of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, tonight accused the diocese of neglecting the building intentionally to pave the way for demolition. The church is structurally sound, he said, and can be converted into housing or even a public pool while keeping its historic nature intact.

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R.I.P., "Cousin Bobby"



Jersey City civil rights activist Rev. Robert W. Castle Jr. dies at 83
By Anthony J. Machcinski/The Jersey Journal
on November 08, 2012 at 3:00 AM, updated November 08, 2012 at 3:01 AM

The Rev. Robert W. Castle Jr., a former Jersey City resident and outspoken Episcopal priest, died Oct. 27 at his home in Holland, Vermont. He was 83.

Castle, considered a true giant in the history of Jersey City by some, was one of the biggest names in the citys civil rights movement.

He is up there with such legends as Dr. George E. Cannon, Dr. Lena Edwards, the Rev. Dr. Ercel Webb, and of course the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., with whom he marched, said John Gomez, founder of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy.

Castle was arrested on multiple occasions in Jersey City while lobbying for cleaner and safer streets. In one famous incident, Castle dumped vanloads of garbage outside City Hall, an incident Gomez hopes will be erased from Castles record.

Jersey City owes it to Rev. Castle to pardon his arrest . . . and to name a street in his memory, Gomez said.

According to Gomez, Castle took pride in fighting to improve the quality of life for Jersey City residents.

He drew strength in the fact that his efforts to improve life for people in the most neglected parts of the city . . . were recognized and appreciated so many years later, Gomez said.

Castle was the subject of Jonathan Demmes 1992 documentary Cousin Bobby.

The film, which was shown at the 1992 Cannes Film Festival, showed Castles life as an outspoken Episcopalian minister in Harlem. Castle also made film appearances in Philadelphia, Beloved and The Addiction.

Castle died of natural causes in his home, according to his family.

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I took these yesterday.



   


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Council postpones vote to preserve church
« Reply #15 on: 10-12-2008, 09:21am »
JC Reporter:



Council postpones vote to preserve church
Audience unhappy; pastor travels from Vermont to speak
Ricardo Kaulessar
Reporter staff writer   10/10/2008
   
The City Council put off a vote on Tuesday to grant landmark status to the St. John Episcopal Church in the Bergen-Lafayette section of the city, which would protect it from proposed demolition by the Episcopal Diocese of Newark.

Instead, the ordinance was tabled, or delayed for voting until a special meeting can be held in November just on that issue.

City Council President Mariano Vega said the meeting will take place in City Hall when the currently renovated City Council Chambers opens for business once again.

The council also put off the vote in order to allow the city's engineering department to visit the church and issue a report as to the structural stability of its infrastructure.

The man from Vermont
But Tuesday's meeting became a bit like church, as the famed former pastor of St. John's, Robert Castle, gave an impassioned speech about landmarking the building.

He was allowed to speak even though the ordinance was tabled, since he not only traveled from his Vermont home specifically for the meeting, but also was part of the church's history during the 1960s.

"My heart goes out to [the church]," he said. "I feel in one sense like I am the last rector who left in 1968."

Castle criticized the Episcopal Diocese for allowing the church's stained-glass windows and other valuable items like the altar to be taken out.

"I feel in some ways that the church is a chicken; when I came back after some years, it looked like it had been plucked clean," he said.

Diocese says it will be senior housing
The tabling of the landmarking ordinance even took by surprise Eugene Paolino, the attorney representing the Episcopal Diocese. After the meeting ended, Paolino said he was ready to give a presentation on the church and the future plans by the Diocese.

He said the Diocese plans to save the faade of the church for a future senior housing project to be built on the site.

Saving 'The Millionaires' Church'
The church was erected in 1870 at its current location of 120 Summit Ave. It went on to achieve a distinction as the largest and wealthiest Episcopal parish in New Jersey, earning its nickname "The Millionaires' Church" for its prestigious clientele.

But by the 1960s, those parishioners moved away, replaced by working-class residents.

The church experienced a resurgence when Jersey City native and cleric Rev. Robert Castle served as head of St. John's Episcopal between 1960 and 1968 and the church became a haven for the civil rights struggle in Jersey City.

The Episcopal Diocese eventually closed the church in 1994 after it had served the community for more than 100 years, complaining of a declining congregation.

Early last year, the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy had filed an application with the Jersey City Historic Preservation Commission (HPC), hoping the structure could get the municipal landmark designation. The designation is to save the church from demolition by the Diocese.

The Diocese claims substantial damage was done to the church's infrastructure over the years and that it would be too expense to restore it for future use. However, the Landmarks Conservancy has argued that the damage has been a result of years of neglect.

The landmarking movement has so far led the Historic Preservation Commission and the Planning Board to recommend landmark status. But it is the City Council's vote that would make it official.

Putting off a little longer
At the meeting, Vega explained to the audience that a special meeting next month will get "all the parties together" to discuss this issue at length in a newly restored chambers.

He described the new chambers as "historic preservation at its best."

However, the decision by the council did not sit well with a number of audience members. While Castle was allowed to speak out early in the meeting, others waited for the general public speaking portion of the council meeting and then sounded off with their displeasure about the postponement.


The Hudson Reporter 2008

Offline cyclotronic

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Re: Plan would spare church, add housing
« Reply #14 on: 10-08-2008, 03:46pm »
That's a very misleading article title.  How about:

Plan might save facade of church, maybe

Plan would spare church, add housing
Tuesday, October 07, 2008
By PAUL KOEPP
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Online MA

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Jersey City Council tables St. John's Church landmark vote
by The Jersey Journal
Tuesday October 07, 2008, 7:41 PM

The Jersey City City Council voted unanimously tonight to table an ordinance to designate St. John's Episcopal Church on Summit Avenue a local landmark.

Council members didn't say during the meeting why they took this action.

But at Tuesday's council caucus, an attorney representing the Episcopal Diocese said church officials were looking into entering into a joint housing venture with its local affordable housing organization and would seek to preserve elements of the 118-year-old Bergen Hill structure.

Before this, church officials had said they only wanted to demolish the vacant structure and sell the property to the highest bidder.

Preservationists have been steadfast in their opposition to demolishing the church and believed they were on the brink of getting the city to come down squarely on their side - until tonight's vote.

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Plan would spare church, add housing
« Reply #12 on: 10-07-2008, 08:26am »
JJ:



Plan would spare church, add housing
Tuesday, October 07, 2008
By PAUL KOEPP
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

The Episcopal Diocese of Newark will present a plan at tonight's Jersey City City Council meeting that could preserve a vestige of St. John's Episcopal Church on Summit Avenue.

Diocese officials hope their pitch to enter into a joint housing venture with the Jersey City Episcopal Community Development Corp. will head off a dispute over whether the church and its rectory should be granted landmark status, according to a letter sent to the city Oct. 1 by their attorney, Eugene Paolino.

On the urging of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, the city Planning Board recommended protecting the buildings as municipal landmarks in December. The City Council is set to hold a public hearing tonight on an ordinance to accept the recommendation, followed by a vote.

The Diocese has argued that two structural reports have found the church is a hazard, with parts of its roof and floor having already collapsed. The JCLC has responded that the church, which dates to 1890, is integral to the historical character of the Bergen Hill neighborhood.

Church officials say it would be too costly to restore the buildings. The housing development, to be designed by Dean Marchetto Architects, would preserve the vestibule and entrance of the church, but further details were not immediately available.

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From the JC Landmarks Conservancy:

10/2/2008 UPDATE: Our battle to save the seminal St. John's Episcopal Church in the Bergen Hill district of Jersey City takes center stage next week, Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at the next City Council meeting at Middle School # 4, starting at 6:00 p.m.

The City Council will be presented with the opportunity to designate St. John's - one of Hudson County's most architecturally pivotal Victorian Gothic edifices - an official Jersey City landmark. This much-needed status will offer considerable protections and allow the building to remain standing while we work hard to encourage the Episcopal Diocese of Newark to preserve this Church through adaptive reuse rather than demolish it as they currently plan.

We would all be extremely appreciative if you - our dedicated preservation support base - could find the time to attend the public meeting and join our campaign groups in the audience.

If you cannot make the meeting, we ask that you send an email or call the City Council directly. (See contact information below.) Every voice counts and will, we are certain, make a lasting impression on the Council.

Thank you again - and we hope to meet up with you next Tuesday!

JERSEY CITY MUNICIPAL COUNCIL MEETING
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, starting at 6:00 p.m.
Middle School # 4
(Frank R. Conwell), 107 Bright Street, Downtown Jersey City (enter at the intersection of Bright and Varick).

CONTACT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS:

We ask that you send a message of support (via phone or email or fax, if preferred) to the City Council. A comprehensive contact list can be found at the link below.

If you would like to reach out only to Council President Mariano Vega and Ward F Councilwoman Viola Richardson (St. John's stands in her district), we are providing their contact info here:

HONORABLE MARIANO VEGA, COUNCIL PRESIDENT - Phone: (201) 547-5268; Fax: (201) 547-4678; Email: mariano@jcnj.org; Hilario Nuez, Council Aide: Phone (201) 547-5458

HONORABLE VIOLA RICHARDSON, WARD F COUNCILWOMAN - Phone: (201) 547-5338; Fax: (201) 547- 4678; Email: RichardsonV@jcnj.org ; Lorenzo Richardson, Council Aide: Phone (201) 547-5361

Online MA

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JJ:



MAY BE SAVED
Thursday, September 25, 2008
By KEN THORBBOURNE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

The battle over the fate of St. John's Episcopal Church in Jersey City escalated last night as the City Council introduced an ordinance to confer landmark status on the 137-year-old Summit Avenue church.

The Episcopal Diocese of Newark wants to demolish the church and sell the land to the highest bidder.

The landmark ordinance comes up for final adoption in two weeks. If adopted, it would block the diocese from demolishing the church unless the physical deterioration of the structure can be shown to leave no other option.

Eugene Paolino, the attorney representing the Diocese, said last night "the Diocese is making efforts to save some architectural aspects of the church."

But, he added: "the problem is the church is in such terrible shape. Landmark status prevents my client from doing anything that's of benefit to my client or the community."

Joshua Parkhurst, president of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, said his organization is ready to keep fighting to save the church.

"We're happy they (City Council) voted to introduce the ordinance," Parkhurst said.

"We expect more debate before the second reading," he added, "but we are confident if the council considers the ordinance on the merits of St. John's historic significance, it will pass."

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Planning Board backs historic status for Jersey City church
« Reply #9 on: 12-12-2007, 12:50pm »
From the JJ:



Planning Board backs historic status for Jersey City church
by Charles Hack

Preservationists hoping to save the St. John's Episcopal Church in Jersey City have won another round in their effort to save the vacant church.

After hearing spirited testimony from preservationists and the owners - who oppose the landmark status - the Jersey City Planning Board voted 6-0 to recommend the building be added to the municipal landmark registry.

Commissioner Leon Yost recused himself because of connections with the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy. The application will now go to the City Council for a final vote.

"We are very happy the Planning Board affirmed the recommendation of the Historic Preservation Commission," said Joshua Parkhurst, president of the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, after the meeting.

Debra Perry, an attorney representing the Trustees of the Episcopal Fund & Diocesan Properties, said the owners, who are eager to sell, can only get top dollar for the land without the church.

The property is ready to collapse and would cost at least $1 million to shore up, Perry said. It will only deteriorate further because the Diocese can't afford to repair it

The Diocese and the Conservancy disagreed on how close the church is to collapsing. Parkhurst said that the further deterioration could be prevented by installing a temporary roof and gutters, for less that the Diocese claimed.

"It is not in danger of imminent collapse," said Dennis Doran, the treasurer of the Bergen Hill Neighborhood Association. "There is nothing here that can't be fixed at a reasonable cost."

Supporters of the landmark designation said the unique Gothic Revival structure, built in 1870, is too important to Jersey City and the historically rich Bergen Hill neighborhood to lose. They want to see it renovated as a church or developed while maintaining the structure.

The Diocese closed the church in 1994 because of a dwindling congregation and has been unable to find another denominations to take it over, Perry said.

« Last Edit: 12-13-2007, 08:33am by MCA »

Offline pinky

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It's in this book about historic churches in New Jersey.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.njchurchscape.com/JerseyCity-StJohn%27s.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.njchurchscape.com/assistance%2520please.html&h=235&w=200&sz=13&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=VIkL8Jb-oRBplM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bjohns%2Bepiscopal%2Bchurch%2Bjersey%2Bcity%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

It never stops amazing me how there is just no respect for history.

'

not to mention that it says St. John's is on Summit and "Fremont Street" as opposed to Fairmount Avenue...



I didn't even pick that up good catch, non.

It really bothers me that something so beautiful, historic and sacred would even be considered for demolition...it's really a shame.

Offline NON

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Offline NON

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It's in this book about historic churches in New Jersey.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.njchurchscape.com/JerseyCity-StJohn%27s.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.njchurchscape.com/assistance%2520please.html&h=235&w=200&sz=13&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=VIkL8Jb-oRBplM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bjohns%2Bepiscopal%2Bchurch%2Bjersey%2Bcity%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

It never stops amazing me how there is just no respect for history.



or for geography, considering that the website linked for that book says that St. Patrick's Church in JC is on "Bramwell" and not Bramhall.

Is it so hard?


Online MA

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From the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy:



The Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy writes to inform you that the Planning Board's consideration of the Conservancy's nomination of St. John's Episcopal Church has been adjourned from November 20, 2007 to December 11, 2007. The Conservancy has learned that the Diocese has requested an adjournment without even giving the Conservancy the courtesy of notifying us of the request. We also have learned that the City, without consulting the Conservancy, has granted the adjournment. We apologize to the many people who have made room on their schedule on the 20th of November, but we had absolutely no say in the decision. This is yet another unfortunate example on both how the Diocese has delayed and manipulated the process and how the City has allowed such manipulation to occur.  The Planning Board will now consider the nomination on December 11, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. at City Hall.

We encourage you to contact the Diocese to express disapproval of its continued opposition to the landmarking of St. John's as well as its obstructionist tactics.  Please CLICK HERE to send an e-mail to the Diocese.  You should follow up this e-mail with a phone call to the office of the Rt. Rev. Mark Beckwith at (973) 430-9976.

Offline Kindelan

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That would be an excellent place fro luxury condominiums.

Online MA

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Posted today by JPhurst, AtS:

Quote
HPC Recommends Landmarking St. John's!

We have some GREAT news to report from last night's Historic Preservation Commission meeting. The HPC has unanimously recommended that St. John's be placed on the Municipal Register of Historic Places. This is far from the final step in the process, as the application must now be considered by the Planning Board and the City Council. But it is a tremendous victory nonetheless.

One bit of troubling news. After the recommendation, the HPC chair asked the Diocese's attorney if the Diocese would commit to not taking any action to demolish the church while the landmark application was pending. The Diocese refused to make such a commitment.

If you have not contacted the Diocese yet, click below and demand that they work with the community to preserve St. John's.

http://citizenspeak.org/node/1158

More information on the campaign generally can be found below.

http://www.jclandmarks.org/campaign-stjohns.shtml


Joshua Parkhurst
President
Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy

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St. John's Episcopal Church: Worth saving, or beyond repair?
« Reply #1 on: 10-29-2007, 08:04pm »
An interesting story about the old church we saw on the 2nd WiredJC hike. Does anyone know if there are any options besides the ones outlined below? And can the Diocese be 'forced' to preserve a building when it has no interest and/or financial resources to do so?




JC Landmarks Conservancy

Worth saving, or beyond repair?
Historic Preservation Commission postpones decision on St. John's Church

Ricardo Kaulessar
Reporter staff writer   
10/27/2007

The struggle between preservation and extinction played out at a meeting of the Jersey City Historic Preservation Commission on Monday night.

The object of the struggle: St. John's Episcopal Church at 120 Summit Ave., a few blocks from the old Jersey City Medical Center.

Earlier this year, a historic preservation group called the Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy had filed an application with the Preservation Commission, hoping the structure could get municipal landmark designation. The distinction would protect the building from demolition.

The Conservancy is concerned that the church will be eventually demolished by the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, which currently owns the building.

The Episcopal Diocese closed the church in 1994 after it had served the community for more than 100 years, complaining of a declining congregation and unnecessary costs to maintain it.

At Monday's meeting, guests heard from a representative for the Landmarks Conservancy and a representative for the Episcopal Diocese.

After two and half hours, the meeting ended with no decision. Instead, the case will continue to be heard at a special meeting of the commission this coming Monday.

The city's head preservation officer, Dan Wrieden, requested that the commissioners of the Historic Preservation Commission visit the church site before the next meeting.

The meeting will be held at 30 Montgomery St. in Jersey City starting at 6:30 p.m.

Saving the church
The first to speak on the application was Ulana Zakalak, a historic preservation specialist based in Red Bank, who was retained by the Landmarks Conservancy. She showed photo slides of the church from its past and present.

Zakalak's argument was that the church is eligible for designation as a historic landmark under the National Register of Historic Places because its status as being at one of the largest Episcopal Church in New Jersey and as a sanctuary during the 1960s civil rights movement in its later years. Also, it is eligible for designation because of its unique architectural style, she said.

According to Zakalak, St. John's was of the few American churches built during the Ecclesiological Movement, an architectural phase started in the late 1800s in England where followers believed that only the "Middle Pointed" style of the late 13th to mid 14th centuries was suitable for church architecture.

The pointed features were intended to "lead your eyes to heaven."

137 years old
The church was erected in 1870 at its current location of 120 Summit Ave. in the Bergen Hill area, where it would enjoy for many years the distinction as the largest and wealthiest Episcopal parish in New Jersey. That led to its moniker as "The Millionaires' Church" at one time, Zakalak said.

Zakalak said that by the 1960s, the wealthy clientele who once frequented the church had moved away and were replaced by working-class people, but there was a resurgence when Jersey City native and cleric Rev. Robert Castle was head of St. John's Episcopal between 1960 and 1968. The church became a haven for the civil rights struggle in Jersey City.

Zakalak then went on to describe the current state of the church.

"The windows have been removed, the church has been vandalized, and has been stripped of its ornament," Zakalak said.

She went on to say, "We should recognize the change from a millionaire's church to an impoverished church serving the demographics of the community...and I believe it can once again serve the community."

Needs a lot of work
The Episcopal Church's legal representative, Deborah Perry, along with several experts in the fields of historic preservation and property assessment retained by the diocese, made the case for why the church cannot be preserved.

Before they made their presentation, Wrieden read a report drafted by trustees for the church claming it does not have the estimated $1 million to stabilize the foundation of the church, nor the $20 million to rebuild the church.

Perry argued against the church being landmarked, saying federal guidelines dictate that "structures such as religious structures as not designated as historic landmarks."

"What are you being asked to landmark?" Perry said. "Are you being asked to landmark the church in its current condition? The current condition of the church does not meet landmark designation criteria, as it has suffered longstanding deterioration."

The experts who followed Perry explained a number of reasons for not preserving the church, from it not being eligible for historic landmarking to the costs of repair and renovation.

Dr. Steven Bedford, an architectural historian based out of Connecticut, said that over 50 percent of the interior was missing and sustained damage and wear-and-tear over the years, making it difficult for preservation.

He also buttressed Perry's argument that the church could not be designated as a historic landmark based on federal guidelines on religious structures.


The Hudson Reporter 2007

Jersey City, NJ Community Forums

St. John's Episcopal Church: Worth saving, or beyond repair?
« Reply #1 on: 10-29-2007, 08:04pm »